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Re: Not All "ccTLDs" are "Businesses" (was Re: PROBLEM with NCDNHC Constituency bylaws)

Bill and all,

J. William Semich (NIC JWS7) wrote:


I have a few response to Milton's comments about ccTLDs who are noncommercial:

At 12:59 PM 7/29/99 -0400, Milton wrote:
>Many ccTLDs, and almost all registrars and ISPs are commercial businesses.
Even if
>they are "non-profit" businesses their economic and political interests
can be
>very different from the consumers of their services. There is a definite
>of interest, especially with TLD registries. TLD registries control the
supply of
>names and benefit economically from the payments for registration. They
may be
>willing to impose policies on domain name holders that make life easier for
>themselves, but are hostile to the user. Also, ccTLDs may prefer to limit
>competition from new TLDs, whereas users may support it.

"ccTLDs" can not be represented by a single structure or concept. Like
everything else in the world, the structure and operations and even the
"personal identity" of the various entities and organizations you have
lumped into the single basket "ccTLDs" is not quite so clear. Many
different organizations have been assigned the "responsibility" for a TLD
in the ISO 3166 name space (ccTLDs). But not all of these are
"operationally responsible" for the registration of domain names or even
for handling money or overseeing transactions. Some - like ISOC-NZ, and
IUS-N, - are not even in the business of accepting domain name

  Agreed completely here Bill.  To the extent that these "Type" of
ccTLD's operate in this fashion, it might be necessary or advantageous
for those entities to consider for the purposes of membership of a
particular constituency, to be members of the NCDNHC.  However
for those that are not engaged in these sort of activities exclusively
they would not fit the as a non-commercial entity legally.
They exist to promote the use of, education of end users
about, and generally support development of, the Internet in their
localities. The operational aspects of the TLD registration process are
managed by separate, private, organizations (either under contract,
license, etc) and the commercial part of the operation is totally separate
from the non-profit organizaiton which has been delegated to oversee the

You cannot, with a single brush, paint all "ccTLDs" as driven by commercial
interests or needs. Many of us are, instead, driving to build the Internet.
That is the primary purpose of IUS-N, in fact.

Would you also exclude hospitals, blood banks, community organizations that
have fund raisers, libraries that charge for overdue books or rent best
sellers, community healt care centers funded by corporate fund drives, the
United Way, etc., all because their activities 'touch" the commercial side
of life?

  As consideration for membership to constituency, the answer here is YES,
defiantly as they are engaged to some degree or another in COMMERCIAL
activities legally speaking.  Therefore we [INEGroup] have suggested that
a new Constituency may be needed such as a NON-PROFIT constituency.
It appears some on the list are considering excluding Universities
as well. So I'll ask - who will be allowed into the NCDNHC?
  Only those organizations that are non-commercial or otherwise have NO
commercial activity.  Possibly some of these organizations would best
fit into the IDNO for instance.  Some may not of course, but would also
not be non-commercial and therefore do not qualify for the NCDNHC

Certainly, if an entity is organized as a non-profit, with a completely
non-commercial orientation (not an association of businesses, or a trade
show created to help promote businesses) and can show evidence it is such,
that should be the primary criteria for membership.

  This depends on the legal interpretation of the term "orientation", I would
say with respect to their jurisdictional status.

>I asked this question in Berlin, and no one could provide a good answer.
So I will
>ask it again: when ccTLD operators tell us that they should be allowed in the
>non-commercial constituency, I ask--why are not universities and
>groups allowed into the ccTLD constituency? When the traffic goes both
ways, then
>we can consider letting them in. Until then, No.

I can answer that question, Milton. Anyone who qualifies is permitted to
join the ccTLD constituency. No one is excluded for also having some other
affiliation or for being in some other DNSO constituency. The traffic goes
both ways.

  This is ok in as much as the can have "Speaking Rights".  It may not be
OK, in as much as they have "Voting Rights"...

Please, Milton, look closely at the list of entities, organzations and
individuals who are members of the ccTLD Constituency of the DNSO. It
includes: Universities, Health Care providers, research organizations,
commercial organizations, individuals, non-profit charities, a whole slew
of other kinds of non-profits, even a couple of college professors and an
attorney or two. No one has been excluded because of their "non-ccTLD"
affiliations. Yet you are proposing to exclude from the NCDNHC anyone who
*does* meet the requirements for membership, but who also has a non-NCDNHC
affiliation. This appears both illogical and unfair to me.

  I don't agree, and I doubt that the DOJ can ignore that disagreement.  The
IRS certainly doesn't.

The NCDNHC should be open to anyone who qualifies as well. The interests of
IUS-N are noncommercial interests. The interests of many other "ccTLDs' are
also noncommercial, and meet all the membership requirements of the NCDNHC.
They should be allowed to become active and contributing members of the

  Yes they should if and only if their activities qualify legally in the jurisdiction
in which they are situated, as non-commercial, otherwise I must agree with
Milton on this point.

Exclusionary membership polices are not in the interests of the Internet....

  Constituency's by their very nature are exclusionary at some point.

Best wishes,

Bill Semich
Member, pNC

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Jeffrey A. Williams
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