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ICANN Meetings in Mar Del Plata

WSIS Working Group

Tuesday, April 5, 2005

Note: The following is the output of the real-time captioning taken during the WSIS Working Group held on 5 April, 2005 in Mar Del Plata, Argentina. Although the captioning output is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors. It is posted as an aid to understanding the proceedings at the session, but should not be treated as an authoritative record.

>>HILARY BOWKER: VINT CERF SHOULD BE APPEARING IN JUST A FEW MINUTES.
LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, WELCOME.
IF YOU WILL JUST DO ME A FAVOR.
I'M JUST CURIOUS TO KNOW THE MAKEUP OF THE ROOM.
SO IF YOU COULD HOLD UP YOUR HAND IF YOU REPRESENT A GOVERNMENT.
OKAY.
AND HOLD UP YOUR HAND IF YOU REPRESENT CIVIL SOCIETY.
OKAY.
SUDDENLY MORE HANDS WENT UP.
OKAY.
NOW, IN THE OLD SENSE OF THE WORD, THE PRIVATE SECTOR.
OKAY.
AND THEN ACTIVE ICANN MEMBERS.
GREAT.
OKAY.
JUST TO GIVE ME A LITTLE BIT OF SENSE OF WHERE WE ARE.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
AND AT THIS POINT, AS I SAID, WE'RE WAITING FOR VINT.
AND IT'S REALLY BEYOND MY CONTROL.
BUT IF PERHAPS SOMEBODY -- IS THERE SOMEBODY HERE WHO COULD GIVE US A HINT OF HOW LONG THAT'S GOING TO BE?
BECAUSE IF HE'S NOT HERE SOON, MAYBE WE'LL BEGIN WITHOUT HIM.
WOULD YOU MIND, VITTORIO, IF I JUST WILL SAY A COUPLE THINGS ABOUT HOW WE WILL DO THE SESSION?
BEFORE VINT GETS HERE, I JUST WANT TO CLARIFY A LITTLE BIT ABOUT HOW WE'RE GOING TO RUN THIS SESSION.
AS YOU CAN SEE, I AM NEITHER ICANN, I'M CERTAINLY NOT PRIVATE SECTOR.
I SUPPOSE I COULD FIT INTO CIVIL SECTOR, BUT I'VE NEVER BEEN ELECTED TO GOVERNMENT.
SO I'M SORT OF AN OUTSIDER AND I'M HERE AS AN INDEPENDENT MODERATOR.
AND THE REASON FOR THAT IS I CAN KEEP TIME WITHOUT OFFENDING ANY COLLEAGUES.
SO WE WILL BE KEEPING TIME, BECAUSE THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE A LOT OF THINGS TO SAY.
AND I'VE ASKED MEMBERS OF THE PANEL TO PLEASE KEEP THEIR ANSWERS TO 3 MINUTES, AT LEAST THE INITIAL ONES.
THEN WE'LL SHORTEN UP.
I WILL ALSO ASK THOSE OF YOU WHO ARE IN THE AUDIENCE TO KEEP YOUR COMMENTS TO 3 MINUTES.
AND I DO CARRY A STOPWATCH AT ALL TIMES.
SO THAT WOULD BE VERY, VERY HELPFUL.
WHEN WE DO GET INTO THE INTERACTIVE PART WITH YOU, PLEASE TELL US CLEARLY WHO YOU ARE.
OKAY?
IT WOULD JUST BE VERY, VERY HELPFUL SO WE ALL KNOW WHO WE'RE TALKING TO.
AND I THINK THAT'S ABOUT IT FOR NOW.
I'M JUST WAITING TO SEE -- WHAT DO WE DO?
SHALL WE START WITHOUT VINT OR WHAT?
YES, WE CAN -- THANK YOU.
I HAVE A VERY PROACTIVE PANEL HERE, AND THEY'RE ACTUALLY GIVING ME SOME GOOD ADVICE.
VITTORIO, WHO'S ACTUALLY SORT OF THE HOST OF THIS, IS GOING TO SAY A FEW WORDS IN A MOMENT.
BUT I THINK WE'RE GOING TO WAIT FOR VINT TO GET HERE.
BUT SINCE HE'S HERE, I'LL INTRODUCE HIM.
HE IS VITTORIO BERTOLA, THE CHAIR OF ALAC FROM ITALY.
AND I'M SURE MOST OF YOU KNOW HIM ALREADY.
THE AMBASSADOR ILEANA DI GIOVAN WILL BE TAKING PART IN THE SECOND PANEL.
BUT AS OUR HOST, I THINK WILL SAY A FEW WORDS OF WELCOME.
AND THEN WE HAVE EDUARDO SANTOYO FROM PERU, WHO IS WORKING WITH THE CC THERE.
SORRY.
AND MARGARITA VALDES FROM CHILE, ALSO A CC PERSON.
RAUL ECHEBERRIA IS LACNIC, URUGUAY, SEBASTIAN BELLAGAMBA IS DIRECTOR, FORMER DIRECTOR, CABASE -- HE'S JUST CABASE.
WE'RE GOING TO TATTOO IT ON HIS FOREHEAD.
AND I THINK A LOT OF YOU KNOW VANDA SCARTEZINI, WHO IS AN ICANN BOARD MEMBER FROM BRAZIL.
ANOTHER ICANN -- WELL, WE HAVE LOTS OF ICANN BOARD MEMBERS, ALEJANDRO PISANTY IS SITTING IN TO REPRESENT MEXICO.
HE MAY NOT BE ON YOUR FIRST LIST, BUT HE'S AGREED TO WEAR SEVERAL HATS TODAY.
AND DEMI GETSCHKO, ALSO AN ICANN BOARD MEMBER, FROM BRAZIL.
AND, OF COURSE, WE'VE JUST BEEN JOINED BY A MAN I THINK MANY OF YOU RECOGNIZE, VINT CERF, WHO --
>>VINT CERF: THE LATE VINT CERF.
>>HILARY BOWKER: THE LATE VINT CERF.
WELL, NO, NOT QUITE.
STILL BREATHING, AS FAR AS WE CAN SEE.
BUT, VITTORIO, WITH THAT, I CAN HAND IT TO YOU.
>>VITTORIO BERTOLA: YES, THANK YOU.
AND WELCOME TO EVERYONE.
FIRST OF ALL, THANKS TO OUR WONDERFUL HOSTS.
WE HAVE TRANSLATION.
SO (SPEAKING IN SPANISH) AND I ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO TAKE THE HEADPHONES, BECAUSE MANY OF THE SPEAKERS WILL BE SPEAKING IN SPANISH.
THIS IS THE FOURTH OF A SERIES OF WORKSHOPS ON THE WORLD SUMMIT ON THE INFORMATION SOCIETY THAT WERE ORGANIZED BOTTOM UP BY A GROUP COMPOSED OF MEMBERS OF DIFFERENT CONSTITUENCIES OF ICANN.
AND I WILL ASK THEM TO STAND UP.
SO PLEASE, PLANNING GROUP, CAN YOU STAND UP.
SO THESE ARE THE PEOPLE THAT HAVE ORGANIZED THIS SERIES OF WORKSHOPS.
AND WE ARE ALSO RELEASING A STATEMENT THAT SHOULD BE CIRCULATING NOW AND THAT YOU ARE ENCOURAGED TO READ AND TAKE INTO ACCOUNT.
AND IT WILL BE ALSO FORWARDED TO THE WGIG PROCESS.
SO I THINK I CAN NOW TURN THE FLOOR TO VINT CERF, THE CHAIRMAN OF THE ICANN BOARD.

>>VINT CERF: I WAS -- NO, IT'S ALL RIGHT.
I WAS GOING TO TRY TO PULL UP SOME NOTES TO REMEMBER WHAT I WANTED TO SAY.
BUT I HAVE JUST A SHORT AMOUNT OF TIME, I ASSUME.
SO LET ME JUST REMIND EVERYONE IN THE COURSE OF THIS DISCUSSION THAT THE UNIVERSE OF THE INTERNET, THE OPERATING INTERNET, IS VERY, VERY LARGE.
IT CONTAINS HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS, BY THIS TIME MAYBE EVEN A BILLION PARTS.
SOME OF THEM ARE PEOPLE.
A LOT OF THEM ARE MACHINES, COMPANIES, AND INSTITUTIONS.
THEY ALL HAVE TO WORK TOGETHER.
THIS DISCUSSION ABOUT THE WORLD SUMMIT ON THE INFORMATION SOCIETY IS ABOUT A GREAT DEAL MORE THAN THE WORK OF ICANN.
WE HAVE A JOB WHICH IS VERY IMPORTANT TO THIS INTERNET UNIVERSE.
BUT THERE ARE MANY, MANY PARTS THAT HAVE TO WORK TOGETHER.
WE ARE COORDINATING A FEW OF THEM.
BUT THE INTERNET RELIES ON INTERNET SERVICE PROVIDERS AND AN ENDLESS ARRAY OF SOFTWARE AND HARDWARE MAKERS AND ORDINARY USERS RUNNING THEIR OWN INTERNETS AT HOME AND COMPANIES RUNNING PRIVATE NETWORKS THAT CONNECT TO IT.
SO IN THE COURSE OF THESE DISCUSSIONS, PLEASE KEEP IN MIND ALL OF THOSE PARTS AND THE ABSOLUTE NECESSITY FOR COORDINATION, COLLABORATION, AND COOPERATION MAKE THE INTERNET WORK.
THANK YOU.
>>HILARY BOWKER: THANK YOU, VINT.
VERY SHORT AND SWEET.
AND NOW AMBASSADOR DI GIOVAN, AS REPRESENTATIVE OF THE HOST NATION, THANK YOU.
>>AMBASSADOR DI GIOVAN: WELCOME TO THIS EVENT ON THE WORLD SUMMIT ON THE INFORMATION SOCIETY.
THE GOVERNANCE OF THE INTERNET IS A CORE SUBJECT IN THE DISCUSSIONS WHEN PREPARING THE SECOND STAGE OF THE WORLD SUMMIT ON THE INFORMATION SOCIETY THAT IT'S GOING TO TAKE PLACE IN TUNIS IN NOVEMBER.
THANK YOU TO THE ORGANIZERS OF THIS EVENT.
THANK YOU FOR COMING HERE TO MAR DEL PLATA TO REFLECT AND DISCUSS, TO ASK, TO COMMENT ON ISSUES RELATED WITH THE INTERNET GOVERNANCE.
IT IS SUCH AN IMPORTANT SUBJECT IN THIS SUMMIT.
THANK YOU, AS WELL, TO THOSE THAT HAVE COME TO ATTEND THE ORIGINAL MEETING INTERGOVERNMENTAL -- ORIGINAL MEETING THAT WILL ALSO ORGANIZE IN PARALLEL TO THIS EVENT TO EXCHANGE FREELY OPINIONS AND ADVICE ON THIS IMPORTANT SUBJECT.
WE WILL LISTEN VERY CAREFULLY TO ALL OF YOUR QUESTIONS AND YOUR COMMENTS.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH, INDEED.
>>HILARY BOWKER: GRACIAS.
THIS PANEL IS GOING TO BE SPLIT INTO TWO PARTS.
AND WE'RE IN LATIN AMERICA.
THERE HAVE BEEN A NUMBER OF EVENTS AND EXPERIENCES IN LATIN AMERICA THAT PERHAPS THE REST OF THE WORLD SHOULD BE AWARE OF, SHOULD PAY ATTENTION TO.
I THINK THERE ARE LESSONS HERE, PERHAPS, FOR THE REST OF US.
SO WE WILL HEAR A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHAT THE INTERNET EXPERIENCES OR STORIES HAVE BEEN IN LATIN AMERICA.
AND, AGAIN, BECAUSE WE'RE IN ARGENTINA, I THINK IT IS CORRECT TO BEGIN WITH SEBASTIAN BELLAGAMBA, WHO IS WITH CABASE HERE IN ARGENTINA.
SEBASTIAN.
>>SEBASTIAN BELLAGAMBA: THANK YOU FOR OFFERING ME THE OPPORTUNITY TO TALK TO YOU.
THE IDEA OF THIS PRESENTATION IS TO SPEAK A LITTLE BIT OF THE DEVELOPMENT OF INTERNET IN ARGENTINA AND TO TALK ABOUT THE -- OUR HISTORY WHEN WE STARTED DEVELOPING INTERNET IN ARGENTINA, WHERE WE STARTED, AND WHAT'S BEEN THE FINAL GOAL.
IN ARGENTINA, FROM THE COMMERCIAL POINT OF VIEW, INTERNET STARTED IN 1995, THE STARTING YEAR FOR LAUNCHING THE COMMERCIAL INTERNET IN ARGENTINA.
PREVIOUSLY TO 1995, THERE WERE A FEW NETWORKS THAT WERE ALREADY IN OPERATION, ESPECIALLY AT THE LEVEL OF UNIVERSITIES.
FIRST CONNECTIONS STARTING 1988, AND THE FIRST COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENT IS LAUNCHED IN 1995 WHEN WE OPENED THE INTERNET TO THE COMMERCIAL OPERATION.
THE FIRST EXPERIENCE, I THINK, IS COMMON WITH OTHER COUNTRIES, IS THE APPEARANCE OF ISPS AND PRIVATE ISPS THAT SELL PRIVATE CONNECTIONS FOR -- BEFORE ACCESS TO INTERNET WAS RESTRICTED TO UNIVERSITIES.
THEN WITH THE COMMERCIAL USE, THE USER BASE STARTS ENLARGING.
WE'RE GOING TO HIGHLIGHT A FEW ITEMS.
BUT YOU KNOW THAT THE FIGURES AS REGARDS INTERNET USERS ARE VERY DIFFICULT TO MEASURE, BECAUSE THEY VARY A LOT.
IN ARGENTINA, WE HAVE USE OF -- 14 TO 15 PERCENT OF THE TOTAL POPULATION.
IN 1995, IT STARTED ITS COMMERCIAL OPERATION.
AND SINCE THEN, A LOT OF THINGS HAVE HAPPENED.
WE HAVE HAD TO FIGHT WITH A LOT OF ISSUES, A LOT OF CHALLENGES THAT PREVENTED INTERNET FROM BEING USED EASILY OR FREELY BY OUR POPULATION.
I WANT TO HIGHLIGHT CERTAIN HIGH MARKS.
FIRST OF ALL, AS A MEMBER OF CABASE, AS THE ORGANIZERS, THE CHAMBER OF ISPS IN ARGENTINA IS THE REPRESENTATION OF ISPS AND CARRIERS IN ARGENTINA, I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE NAP OF CABASE THAT WAS BUILT IN 1998 THAT ALLOWS THAT THE NATIONAL TRAFFIC INTERNET IS CONNECTED FOR FREE ON AN INTERNATIONAL LEVEL.
THEN THE SECOND LANDMARK IN THE PRESIDENTIAL DECREE THAT WAS PASSED IN PARLIAMENT IN THE YEAR 2000, IT OPENED THE YEAR OF INTERNET TO THE LARGEST PART OF THE POPULATION.
THESE TWO LANDMARKS HAVE TWO DIFFERENT ISSUES.
FIRST OF ALL, MOST OF THE USERS IN ARGENTINA TODAY, THEY DO NOT HAVE THEIR OWN COMPUTER, BUT THEY ACCESS THE INTERNET THROUGH A CYBER CAFE.
THERE IS A LOT OF USERS OF INTERNET IN ARGENTINA ARE USING THESE CYBER CAFES.
SECOND ISSUE IS THE CHANGE IN THE ACCESS WAY, WHEN WE'VE MOVED TO THE WIDE BAND.
I THINK THESE ARE THE TWO MAIN ISSUES THAT YOU HAVE TO TAKE INTO ACCOUNT HERE IN ARGENTINA.
SOMETHING PECULIAR TO OUR COUNTRY.
>>HILARY BOWKER: (INAUDIBLE).
>>VANDA SCARTEZINI: GOOD AFTERNOON, ALL.
BRAZIL HAS DESIGNED A SPECIAL MODEL FOR THE GOVERNANCE OF THE INTERNET.
BEHIND THIS MODEL IS REALLY ALSO THE .BR.
BUT WHAT IS IMPORTANT, THE MODEL, IS THE MULTISTAKEHOLDER, TELECOM INDUSTRY, TELECOMMUNICATION INDUSTRY, ISPS, THE THIRD SECTOR AND ACADEMY AND THE GOVERNMENT.
SO IT'S ALL TOGETHER TRYING TO BUILD A CONSENSUS MODEL.
THE OTHER IMPORTANT FOOT IN THIS THREE-FOOT MODEL IS THE ONE UMBRELLA PROJECT THAT WAS LAUNCHED BY THE LAST PRESIDENT THAT'S INFORMATION SOCIETY PROJECTS.
SO BECAUSE THE PRESIDENT MAKES SO MUCH IMPORTANCE OF THAT, THIS COMMAND THE PEOPLE TO JOIN THE IDEA THAT'S INFORMATION SOCIETY IS REALLY IMPORTANT FOR THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE COUNTRY AND ITS SELF-DEVELOPMENT.
AND WHAT IS THE MAIN FOOT OF THESE THREE BASIC PROGRAM IS THE FUNDING MODEL.
BECAUSE WITHOUT MONEY, IT'S IMPOSSIBLE TO EXPAND THE INTERNET, EXPAND SOCIO CONNECTIVITY.
SO WE STARTED WITH THREE BIG FUNDINGS.
ONE IS BEHIND THE ICT LAW.
THAT'S AN OLD ONE THAT STARTED TO CONNECT IN THE -- TO GIVE THE INCENTIVES FROM THE PRIVATE SECTOR TO BUILD A NETWORK, ACADEMIC NETWORK THAT STARTED TO EXPAND THE INTERNET IN BRAZIL.
THE SECOND ONE WAS GRANT BY THE PRIVATE TELECOMMUNICATIONS SEGMENT IN BRAZIL.
THEN 1% OF THE TOTAL REVENUE OF THOSE INCUMBENTS ARE DEDICATED TO OUR BIG PROGRAM FOR THE INCLUSION, DIGITAL INCLUSION.
AND THE THIRD ONE WAS THE MANDATORY COMMAND FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO USE WEB, USE DIGITAL SIGNATURE, AND USE E-MAIL TO COMMUNICATE AMONG THEM.
THIS LAUNCHED HELPED DISPUTES AMONG THE STATES AND TO PUT EVERYBODY CONNECTED AND START GIVING SERVICES FOR THE COUNTRY.
AND SO WHEN THE GOVERNMENT GIVES SOME SERVICES DIRECTLY TO THE POPULATION, THE FEAR MOVES FROM A LOW LEVEL, SOCIAL-LEVEL PEOPLE GET NOT ANYMORE AFRAID ABOUT THE COMPUTERS, ABOUT HOW TO DEAL WITH THESE THINGS, BECAUSE THEY NEED TO GET THE SERVICE, SO THEY LEARN HOW TO GET -- AND THIS IS A GOOD BEGINNING FOR DEVELOPING COUNTRY.
SO IN A FEW MINUTES, THAT'S IT.
>>HILARY BOWKER: I THINK NOW, RATHER THAN MOVING JUST TO THE STORY OF HOW IT BEGAN, I'D LIKE TO FOCUS IN A LITTLE BIT ON A -- THE CC STORY, MAYBE, IN CHILE, WHERE ACADEMIA TOOK A VERY LEADING CONTROL.
AND I'D ASK MARGARITA VALDES TO TELL US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT.
>>MARGARITA VALDES: GOOD AFTERNOON.
WHAT HAPPENED IN CHILE IS RELATED TO INTERNET CONNECTIVITY, BUT ALSO WITH THE SYSTEM OF DOMAIN NAMES, IN 1997, CHILEAN UNIVERSITY AND OTHER UNIVERSITIES BEGAN TRIALS WORKING WITH THE INTERNET AND NETWORKS.
AND THE DOMAIN NAMES REGISTRY BEGINS IN THE UNIVERSITY OF CHILE.
IN THE FIRST STAGE, THE REGISTRIES WERE INFORMAL AND THERE WAS A LOT OF COMMUNICATION INSIDE THE LOCAL NETWORK.
IN THE YEAR 1997, WE BEGIN TO FORMALIZE THE DOMAIN NAMES REGISTRY AND ALSO REAL CHANNELING OF THE INTERNET SUBJECTS.
ALL THE CONCERNS THAT APPEAR AT THE COUNTRY LEVEL.
SO THEN STARTED SOME INTERESTING DIALOGUE BETWEEN THE ISPS, THE INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY LAWYERS, BUSINESS PEOPLE.
AND THROUGH THIS DIALOGUE, WE FORMALIZED THE REGISTRY.
BUT WE ALSO START RECOGNIZING THE FACES AND THE ACTORS, THE STAKEHOLDERS OF THE INTERNET QUESTION, TRYING TO BUILD INTERNET IN THE COUNTRY.
AFTER THE NIC CHILE, WE GENERATED INFORMAL ADVISORY BOARD, INVITING THESE STAKEHOLDERS TO A MORE FORMAL LEVEL TO SIT DOWN AT THE TABLE AND START DIALOGUE.
AND THIS INITIATIVE WAS VERY SUCCESSFUL, BECAUSE AMONGST THE STAKEHOLDERS, WE ALSO HAD THE REPRESENTATIVES FROM THE GOVERNMENT.
SO WE TRIED TO OBTAIN INPUTS FROM THE COMMUNITY WITH THESE REPRESENTATIVES SO AS TO BE ABLE TO CHANNEL THE CONCERNS OF THE CIVIL SOCIETY AND ALSO TO TRY AND REGULATE THE QUESTIONS RELATED WITH COUNTRY CODES TOP-LEVEL DOMAINS IN CHILE.
THE LAST STAGE, IN THE YEAR 2003, THE SAME COMMUNITY AND FROM THE INITIATIVE OF THE SUBSECRETARIAT OF TELECOMMUNICATIONS AND SUBSECRETARIAT OF THE ECONOMY, WE HAVE BEEN ABLE TO CREATE A NATIONAL BOARD OF CCTLD THAT IS WORKING REGULARLY THAT HOLDS MEETINGS, AND IT HAS AS A MAIN FEATURE THAT REPRESENTATIVES ON THIS BOARD ARE REPRESENTING THE CIVIL SOCIETY, ARE REPRESENTING DIFFERENT ENTITIES, DIFFERENT STAKEHOLDERS WITHIN THE COMMUNITY.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
>>HILARY BOWKER: EDUARDO SANTOYO WAS TELLING ME YESTERDAY THAT THE STORY IN PERU WAS A LITTLE DIFFERENT.
I THINK THE FINAL POSITION IS THAT THERE'S BEEN A LOT MORE COOPERATION BETWEEN THE GOVERNMENT AND THE PRIVATE SECTOR IN TERMS OF THE INTERNET.
BUT YOU HAD A FEW ROCKY MOMENTS.
CAN YOU TELL US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT HOW THAT HAPPENED.
>>EDUARDO SANTOYO: YES, HILARY, THE INTERNET DEVELOPMENT IN PERU WAS MAINLY -- IT STARTED IN 1990, THANKS TO PRIVATE COMPANIES, ESPECIALLY THE PERUVIAN SCIENTIFIC NETWORK, IN 1991 RECEIVED THE COMMAND OR THE MANDATE TO HANDLE THE CCTLD IN PERU.
BUT FOR TEN YEARS, THERE'S BEEN A PERIOD IN GOVERNMENT THAT ENDED IN THE YEAR 2000 WITH THE OUSTING OF FUJIMORI, THAT GAVE THE IDEA THAT THERE'S NO OTHER AGENT IN THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE INTERNET THAN THE GOVERNMENT.
SO DUE TO THIS LINE, THIS PHILOSOPHY, THIS GOVERNMENTAL PHILOSOPHY, AND DESPITE THE FACT THAT FUJIMORI LEFT POWER IN THE YEAR 2000, THERE'S A TRANSITIONAL GOVERNMENT.
AND THEN THERE'S AWARENESS OF THE IMPORTANCE OF THE INTERNET.
AND IT'S BEEN PERCEIVED AS TRUE FOR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AND AMONGST THE MEASURES THAT THE GOVERNMENT TOOK WAS, FIRST OF ALL, TO TRY AND TAKE CONTROL OF THE HANDLING OF THE CCTLD.
IT WAS A KIND OF AN EXPROPRIATION IN THE ACTIVITIES THAT FOR TEN YEARS, THE PERUVIAN SCIENTIFIC NETWORK WAS DEVELOPING.
AND AT THE TIME THERE WERE NO COMPLAINTS FOR FUNCTIONING.
QUITE ON THE CONTRARY, MOST OF THE COMMITTEE WAS SATISFIED WITH THE OPERATION OF THIS UNIVERSITY.
AND THEN WE REALIZED THAT THE INTENTION OF THE GOVERNMENT WAS VALID IN THE SENSE THAT THE GOVERNMENT WANTED THEIR VIEWPOINTS TO BE TAKEN INTO ACCOUNTS IN CHOOSING POLICIES AND LINES OF ACTION AS REGARDS THE DOMAIN NAMES REGISTRY.
BUT, OF COURSE, THERE WERE CERTAIN DIFFICULT PERIODS.
IT WAS A THORNY ISSUE.
WE EVEN WENT TO COURT.
BUT, FINALLY, THE CASE WAS WITHDRAWN FROM THE COURT AND WE DECIDED, OR THE GOVERNMENT DECIDED, THAT IT WAS BETTER TO TRY AND COOPERATE BETWEEN THE SOCIAL -- THE CIVIL SOCIETY, THE GOVERNMENT, AND THE PRIVATE SECTOR, NOT JUST AS REGARDS THE CCTLD, BUT EVERYTHING, ALL THE ISSUES RELATED WITH THE MANAGEMENT OF THE INTERNET.
30 SECONDS.
OKAY.
TWO ADVISORY COUNCILS WERE CREATED FIRST OF ALL AS REGARDS THE CCTLD, AND SECOND FOR THE HARMONIZATION AROUND THE INFORMATION SOCIETY, AND WE'RE WORKING IN THESE TWO LINES OF ACTION IN PERU RIGHT NOW.
>> MIKE.
>>HILARY BOWKER: ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I JUST WANTED TO HIGHLIGHT, BECAUSE EDUARDO MENTIONED THIS YESTERDAY, AND I FOUND IT QUITE INTERESTING, IS THAT THERE WAS A NEW GOVERNMENT, THERE'S A LOT OF HISTORY AND CONTEXT, OBVIOUSLY, IN PERU, GIVEN THAT THERE HAS BEEN A QUASI-DICTATORSHIP BEFORE.
BUT THEY HAD LAUNCHED OR MADE THIS DECREE TO PRIVATIZE OR TO NATIONALIZE.
YOU SUED.
BUT THAT WAS WHAT ACTUALLY BEGAN WHAT TURNED OUT TO BE A VERY GOOD RELATIONSHIP; WASN'T IT?
>>EDUARDO SANTOYO: YES.
WE TOOK RECOURSE TO COURT.
BUT THIS GAVE BIRTH TO A DIALOGUE IN BETWEEN REGISTRY THAT WAS REPRESENTED BY THE PERUVIAN SCIENTIFIC NETWORK AND THE DIFFERENT AGENTS, GOVERNMENT AGENTS, THAT, AS I SAID BEFORE, BROUGHT ABOUT NOWADAYS THAT NOT JUST THE QUESTIONS OF REGISTRY, BUT ALSO THE GENERAL DISCUSSION RELATED WITH THE INFORMATION SOCIETY IN PERU.
NOW THE GOVERNMENT IS ADOPTING THE MULTISTOCKHOLDER SCENARIO.
SO BOTH AS REGARDS THE REGISTRY WE'VE CREATED AND ADVISORY COMMITTEE, COUNCIL, THERE'S ONE COMMITTEE FOR THE CCTLD, BUT THERE'S A SECOND COUNCIL THAT IS TREATING ISSUES RELATED WITH THE INFORMATION SOCIETY ON A CIVIL LEVEL.
>>HILARY BOWKER: WHEN THIS ALL BEGAN IN MEXICO, I GATHER THERE WAS A LOT MORE TALKING.
AND I KNOW THAT YOU WERE INVOLVED WITH THE INTERNET AT THE VERY BEGINNING.
WAS IT COLLABORATIVE?
WAS IT BASICALLY ACADEMIA?
HOW DID IT HAPPEN THERE?
>>ALEJANDRO PISANTY: INTERNET BEGAN IN MEXICO IN 1989 WITH THE FIRST CONNECTIONS THROUGH SATELLITE, SO THAT THE ASTRONOMERS COULD OBSERVE EVENTUAL PHENOMENONS IN THE SOUTHERN HEMISPHERE.
THERE WAS AN EFFORT IN THE UNIVERSITY IN MEXICO.
WE WERE CHANGING CONNECTIONS IN ONE OF THE UNIVERSITIES IN MY COUNTRY.
WE WERE CHANGING THE INTERNET INFRASTRUCTURE.
WE WERE CHANGING THE INTERNET CONNECTION, THOSE CONNECTIONS BASED ON TCP AND EPP.
AND WE WERE TRYING TO OFFER ITS USE TO OTHER INSTITUTIONS AND PEOPLE.
THERE WAS A PROBLEM, I THINK IT WAS AT THE LEVEL OF THE CONTINENT.
WE TRIED TO BUILD IT BACKWARD INSTEAD OF TRYING TO FINANCE THE DEVELOPMENT, THE ACADEMIC INSTITUTIONS.
THEN WE HAD AN INTENSIVE USE OF THE INTERNET AT UNIVERSITIES.
BUT ITS USE HAS ALSO BEEN ENLARGED TO THE LARGE-SECTOR COMPANIES.
SOME PEOPLE THOUGHT THIS WAS AN OPPORTUNISTIC MOVEMENT, THAT WAS A REBELLION THAT WAS LED THROUGH THE NEWSPAPERS AND THROUGH THE INTERNET.
BUT IT'S TRUE THAT INTERNET HAD AN IMPORTANT ROLE TO PLAY IN THE DIFFUSION OF THE MESSAGE OF THIS IN THE YEARS 1996 AND 1997, IT CAME FROM A PUBLIC PROVIDER -- A PRIVATE PROVIDER TO A PUBLIC PROVIDER, DECIDED TO ENTER INTO THE INTERNET, MULTIPLYING BY 7 THE CONNECTIONS TO MEGABYTE CONNECTIONS.
IT WAS THE MAIN INPUT OF ISPS.
AND THIS REDUCED PRICES.
AND CURRENTLY THIS CHANGED ENTIRELY THE ISPS.
NOW THEY ARE LARGE ISPS WITH A LOT OF CUSTOMERS.
CURRENTLY, THERE'S BEEN AN INTERNET BUBBLE WITH NEW BUSINESS THAT APPEAR AND DISAPPEAR.
THERE'S AN IMPORTANT EFFORT OF MEXICAN GOVERNMENT WITH THE E-MEXICO.
ALSO THIS -- TRYING TO EXPAND THE USE OF THE INTERNET THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY TO DEVELOP ADVANCED NETWORK, ALSO THE CONNECTION WITH EUROPE.
WE HAVE A POPULATION OF 15 MILLION INTERNOTES, THE SAME PROPORTION THAT'S BEEN MENTIONED IN ARGENTINA, 15% OF THE POPULATION ARE USING THE INTERNET.
WE HAVE THE CHALLENGE OF EXPANDING BOTH THE ACCESS TO THE NETWORK AND THE USE OF THE CONTENT, AND ALSO TO TRY AND FIGHT SPAM, CYBER CRIME, ALL THE QUESTIONS OF INTERNET GOVERNANCE, IN GENERAL, ARE NOT ONE OF THE MAIN CONCERNS OF THE POPULATION IN MEXICO APART FROM THE QUESTION OF SPAM OR THE ISSUES DIRECTLY RELATED WITH THEIR DAILY LIFE.
>>HILARY BOWKER: GRACIAS, ALEJANDRO.
IF I COULD ASK TO YOU ELABORATE A LITTLE BIT ON THE BRAZILIAN STORY SPECIFICALLY WITH REGARD TO THE WAY THE CC HAPPENED THERE.
WAS IT AS COLLABORATIVE?
BECAUSE WE GOT AN INDICATION FROM VANDA THAT THERE WAS A LOT OF COLLABORATION FROM THE VERY BEGINNING.
>>DEMI GETSCHKO: I'M GOING TO TRY TO SPEAK IN PORTUGUESE SPANISH.
THE STORY OF THE BEGINNING OF THE INTERNET IN BRAZIL IS MORE OR LESS THE SAME AS IN THE REST OF THE LATIN AMERICAN COUNTRIES.
WE BEGAN CONNECTING IN THE NETWORK IN THE YEAR 1987.
IN '89, WE MADE THE FIRST REGISTRY FOR .BR.
THEN WE MOVE ON TO THE BIT NET, ALSO THE HIGH-ENERGY NETWORK, HIGHNET.
AND IN 1991, WE BEGAN CHANGING FROM TCPEP.
THE BEGINNING OF CCTLD WAS MADE THROUGH THE UNIVERSITY AND ALSO THEIR FOUNDATIONS, LINK TO THE UNIVERSITY.
THERE WAS A LOT OF VOLUNTEER WORK THAT IS A TYPICAL FEATURE AT THE BEGINNING OF THE LIFE OF THE INTERNET, THIS TRUST CHAIN -- CHAIN OF TRUST, OF LOYALTY, OF RESPONSIBILITY BASED ON THIS MUTUAL TRUST.
IN THE YEAR 1994, THE TELECOMMUNICATION COMPANIES IN BRAZIL, INCUMBENTS THAT WERE OFFERING THE COMMUNICATION SERVICES, BEGAN TO UNDERSTAND THE NEED FOR TCP/IP.
SINCE 1994, WHAT WE WERE SEEING WAS JUST NO TCP/IP AMONGST THE BRAZILIAN CARRIERS.
IN THE YEAR 1994, THE MAJOR CARRIER, THERE WAS A PUBLIC CARRIER, BEGAN WITH TCP/IP, AND THIS GAVE BIRTH TO THE BIG OPENING OF THE INTERNET MARKET FOR PRIVATE USERS.
TO GIVE JUST TWO HIGHLIGHTS ON THIS ISSUE, WE NEVER TRIED TO CONSIDER THE CC AS A PROFIT-MAKING ACTIVITY AS A MAIN BUSINESS OBJECTIVE.
OUR IDEA WAS THAT THE BUSINESS WOULD BE ONLY THE INFRASTRUCTURE AND BUSINESS DEVELOPED ON THE BASIC INFRASTRUCTURE. SO WE WERE WORKING ALWAYS ON COST RECOVERY, HAVE A MIXED STRUCTURE THAT WOULD EXPLAIN AS WELL THE GOVERNMENT, CIVIL STRUCTURE, CIVIL SOCIETY AND UNIVERSITY.
>>HILARY BOWKER: THANK YOU, DEMI. I APOLOGIZE, APPARENTLY I WAS NOT SPEAKING INTO THE MIKE CLOSE ENOUGH BEFORE, AND SO I WILL MAKE AN EFFORT. AND IF I LEAVE IT ON, PLEASE LET ME KNOW BEFORE I START MUTTERING DURING SOMEONE ELSE'S COMMENTS.
RAUL, I WILL COME TO YOU. YOU SAID A LOT OF INTERESTING THINGS YESTERDAY IN TERMS OF THE REGIONAL APPROACH AND MULTI-STAKEHOLDERS. IF WE COULD START, FIRST OF ALL, WITH THE REGIONAL IMPORTANCE OF LAC -- LACNIC, I SHOULD SAY, AND A LITTLE BIT ABOUT HOW THAT BEGAN. AND THEN I THINK LATER ON I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE WANT TO TALK ABOUT DEVELOPMENT. BUT FIRST OF ALL, WITH THAT.
>>RAUL ECHEBERRIA: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, INDEED. PROBABLY MOST OF YOU HERE PRESENT KNOW ABOUT LACNIC. I'M GOING TO MAKE A BRIEF SUMMARY. IN THE YEAR '97, THERE WAS AN ORGANIZATION CALLED THE LATIN AMERICA FORUM OF NETWORKS THAT WAS TRYING TO JOIN ALL THE PIONEERS OF THE INTERNET AT THE TIME, MAINLY FROM THE ACADEMIC SIDE.
THIS ORGANIZATION HAD BEEN CREATED A FEW YEARS AGO. IN THE YEAR 1997 IT APPEARED THE IDEA OF CREATING AN ORIGINAL REGISTRY. WE DIDN'T REALLY KNOW WHAT IT MEANT, BUT WE PERCEIVED THAT IT WAS NECESSARY TO GET INVOLVED INTO IT, TO BE ABLE TO DEVELOP MORE CAPACITIES AT THE REGIONAL LEVEL AND TO BE MORE INDEPENDENT.
IN THE YEAR 1998, THIS PROJECT WAS BORN IN '97 BUT IN THE YEAR '98 WERE NEW ACTORS THAT APPEARED; MAINLY PRIVATE SECTOR STAKEHOLDERS. ONE OF THEM, FOR INSTANCE, CABASE, OUR HOST HERE IN MAR DEL PLATA. THE PROCESS OF VFPP FOR THE PROCESS TO BE SUCCESSFUL WE REQUIRED A WIDE BASIS FOR SUPPORT.
IN 1999 WE SIGNED THE AGREEMENT FOR THE CREATION OF LACNIC BETWEEN SIX ORGANIZATIONS, MEXICO AND BRAZIL, THE TWO NATIONAL REGISTERS THAT ALREADY EXISTED IN LATIN AMERICA AND WITHOUT THEIR COOPERATION IT WOULD HAVE BEEN IMPOSSIBLE TO PUSH FOR THIS INITIATIVE.
THE LATIN AMERICAN FORUM, IT'S AN ASSOCIATION OF TELECOMMUNICATION COMPANIES THEY'RE REPRESENTING. THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF THE TELEPHONE LINES THAT ARE INSTALLED IN THE REGION. ALSO CABASE. THERE IS A FEDERATION OF CONNECTIVITY PROVIDERS AT THE LEVEL OF E-COMMERCE.
ON THIS BASIS, THIS WAS A LITTLE BIT OF THE KEY FOR SUCCESS OF LACNIC THAT REPRESENTED A VERY IMPORTANT PERCENTAGE OF THE REGIONAL COMMUNITY.
WE WERE WORKING TOGETHER AND WE HAVE BEEN VERY SUCCESSFUL, BUT MAINLY WE WERE INTERESTED IN -- FROM THE TIME WE GOT TOGETHER, TO TRY TO FIGURE OUT WHAT WE WERE GOING TO DO. FIRST OF ALL, WE DIDN'T WANT TO BE AN ORGANIZATION THAT WAS JUST DOING THE JOB THAT HAS BEEN DONE ALREADY BY OTHER ORGANIZATIONS.
WE WANTED TO CREATE AN ORGANISM THAT WAS DIFFERENT; THAT WAS SORT OF AN ELEMENT THAT PUSHED FOR AN ENGINE FOR THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE INTERNET IN THIS REGION.
FOR US, WE'RE TRYING TO GENERATE DISCUSSION TO TRY TO ENLARGE THE CRITICAL MASS AT THE LEVEL OF THE REGION, PROMOTE EXCHANGE OF EXPERIENCES BETWEEN THE OPERATORS, WORKING WITH DIFFERENT AREAS AND THE FINANCING OF RESEARCH, AGREEMENTS WITH UNIVERSITIES. WE'RE INVOLVED IN AS MANY PROJECTS AS WE CAN RELATED WITH THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE INTERNET AND THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY.
JUST A FINAL MESSAGE, I BELIEVE IT'S VERY INTERESTING, AS OUR PROJECT WAS BORN FROM THE CONCERN OF THE CIVIL SOCIETY, I THINK IT WAS SUCCESSFUL BECAUSE THE ENVIRONMENT WE WERE MOVING, THE ENVIRONMENT ALLOWED FOR THE PARTICIPATION OF THE DIFFERENT STAKEHOLDERS. IT WAS AN OPEN FIELD WE WERE TRYING TO CREATE AND BASED ON THE PARTICIPATION OF THE STAKEHOLDERS AND I THINK THAT WAS THE KEY FOR SUCCESS.
>>HILARY BOWKER: THANK YOU, RAUL. I'M A LITTLE TORN HERE BECAUSE ON THE ONE HAND, I'VE HEARD A LOT OF YOU TALK ABOUT THE IMPORTANCE OF MULTI-STAKEHOLDER MODELS IN MANY OF YOUR COUNTRIES. ON THE OTHER HAND, I'VE ALSO HEARD A LOT OF YOU TALK ABOUT THE NEED FOR USING ICTS AS A DEVELOPMENT TOOL.
SO I'M GOING TO TAKE A LITTLE BIT OF A STRAW POLL HERE AMONGST THE PANELISTS FIRST BECAUSE IT'S STILL THEIR SAY.
DO WE WANT TO GO WITH DEVELOPMENT OR DO WE WANT TO GO WITH MULTI-STAKEHOLDER?
>>EDUARDO SANTOYO: OKAY. I THINK -- SORRY.
I THINK HERE, THE ISSUE THAT IS MOSTLY CONCERNING US IS THAT, UP UNTIL RECENTLY IN LATIN AMERICAN COUNTRIES AND CARIBBEAN, PERU, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE MULTI-STAKEHOLDER MODEL. AND IN THE FIELD OF TELECOMMUNICATIONS, AND ONLY CONSIDERING THE QUESTION OF INTERNET DEVELOPMENT. WE'RE LOSING SIGHT OF THE THINKING CAPACITY, AND I INVITE US TO THINK ABOUT THE INTERNET AND THE TELECOMMUNICATION TECHNOLOGIES AS A TOOL THAT COULD PROMOTE ACTIONS THAT WILL IMPROVE THE COMMUNICATION BETWEEN HUMAN BEINGS. I THINK THERE'S STILL AN IMPORTANT VACUUM, AND THIS IS FELT IN THE LACK OF PARTICIPATION OF CERTAIN GOVERNMENT AGENTS, THE CIVIL SOCIETY AND THE PRIVATE SECTORS.
APART FROM THE TELECOMMUNICATION SECTOR, THERE AREN'T DISCUSSIONS RELATED TO THIS ISSUE.
>>HILARY BOWKER:VANDA YOU STARTED TALKING ABOUT THIS BEFORE, BUT DO YOU THINK THERE'S ENOUGH -- FOR INSTANCE, IN BRAZIL IS THERE AN INTEGRATED APPROACH TO USING ICT AS A DEVELOPMENT TOOL? AND WHAT ABOUT REGIONALLY?
>>VANDA SCARTEZINI: I'M GOING TO TALK IN PORTUGUESE, SPANISH.
FIRST OF ALL, WITH ALL THE HISTORY OF THIS UMBRELLA OF THE INFORMATION SOCIETY, ALL THE GOVERNMENT DECIDED TO DEVELOP TO GO WITH THE CIVIL SOCIETY A SERIES OF PROGRAMS FOR FREE PUBLIC ACCESS THAT WAS OFFERED TO THOSE SECTORS OF THE SOCIETY THAT HAVE NO PURCHASING POWER TO ACQUIRE COMPUTERS. THIS IS WHAT WE CALL THE TELE-CENTERS OR INFO-CENTERS OR INTERNET CENTERS IN BRAZIL.
THEY WERE CREATED MOSTLY IN THE POOREST AREAS IN BRAZIL.
SO THESE TYPE OF CENTERS OFFER FOR FREE INFORMATION ABOUT BASIC NEEDS OR INFORMATION RELATED TO GOVERNMENTAL SERVICES FOR THE LIFE OF CITIZENS, AND WHAT'S MORE IMPORTANT, THEY OFFER CONTENTS RELATED WITH EDUCATION COURSES OR VERY SIMPLE COURSES SUCH AS, FOR INSTANCE, HOW TO MAKE REMEDIES WITH PLANTS OR TRYING TO USE THE INTERNET AS AN EDUCATION TOOL. AND THESE ARE TARGETING THE POOREST POPULATION AND TRY AND GIVE THEM ACCESS TO THE WORKING, THE LABOR MARKET.
THE TELECOMMUNICATION GROUP HAS MADE AN IMPORTANT JOB IN MEETING POINT IN THE DIFFERENT MUNICIPALITIES IN BRAZIL. SO FROM THESE MEETING POINT, THANKS TO ALL THE TECHNOLOGIES, DISTRIBUTION OF CONNECTIVITIES TO THE DIFFERENT MUNICIPALITIES IN BRAZIL, THAT IT'S SUCH A LARGE COUNTRY.
>>HILARY BOWKER: WHAT I'M HEARING A LOT IN TERMS OF TALKING TO PEOPLE HERE IS AGAIN COMING BACK TO THE COLLABORATION ASPECT AND THE FACT THAT THERE OFTEN SEEMS TO BE SOMEHOW A METHOD OF, EVEN WHEN PEOPLE DISAGREE, BE IT GOVERNMENTS, PRIVATE SECTOR, CIVIL SOCIETY, RATHER THAN HAVING A LOGJAM WHERE NOTHING MOVES, SOMEHOW PEOPLE MANAGE TO KEEP MOVING FORWARD. MAYBE NOT EXACTLY IN THE SAME DIRECTION, AND I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S A PARTICULARLY LATIN AMERICAN PHENOMENON, BUT IT'S OBVIOUSLY A VALUABLE THING TO KEEP IN MIND GIVEN SOME OF THE DISCUSSIONS GOING ON IN THE GLOBAL FRONT.
AND I'M GOING TO TURN TO ALEJANDRO AGAIN AND SAY, ALEJANDRO, CAN YOU GIVE ME A SENSE, OF, "A," AM I DREAMING, AM I ON DRUGS, IS THIS REALITY, IS THERE SOME SENSE OF MOVING FORWARD HERE EVEN WHEN THERE'S DISAGREEMENT AND DO YOU THINK THERE ARE ANY SPECIFIC MESSAGES THAT COULD BE TRANSLATED?
>>ALEJANDRO PISANTY: THAT'S A HEAVY BURDEN.
THAT'S A HEAVY BURDEN YOU PUT ON MY SHOULDERS.
I THINK WHAT VANDA HAS SAID REFLECTS WHAT THE PARTICIPANTS HAVE MENTIONED BEFORE. INTERNET HAS BEEN DEVELOPED ON THE PRINCIPLE OF THE FLOWERING OF A THOUSAND FLOWERS. AS TO THE REST OF THE WORLD, I THINK IT'S A CONTINUING ISSUE TO THE CITIZENS TO THE ACADEMIC COMMUNITIES. BUSINESS OPPORTUNITIES HAVE MADE EACH COUNTRY IN A DIFFERENT WAY A THOUSAND INITIATIVES APPEAR, EXPANDING THE USE OF THE INTERNET. IN CERTAIN AREAS, WE'VE BEEN LUCKY ENOUGH TO USE A COMBINATION OF E-MAIL. CURRENTLY THAT'S A VERY SUCCESSFUL JOB IN MEXICO WITH THOUSANDS OF USERS, USING THE INTERNET THROUGH THE TELEVISION, WITH, FOR INSTANCE THE TV CONTESTS. THE GOVERNMENTAL EFFORTS -- FOR INSTANCE, E-MEXICO, THEY HAVE THIS LEVEL OF TELECENTERS IN BRAZIL. OR THE EFFORTS DEVELOPED IN PERU OR OTHER COUNTRIES, THANKS TO THE CIVIL SOCIETY ORGANIZATION ARE JUST ANOTHER CONTRIBUTION TO A LARGE ACCESS TO A LARGE USE.
THERE ARE OTHER INITIATIVES -- FOR INSTANCE, THE E-MEXICO PROJECT IN WHICH THE POPULATION SHOULD END UP FINANCING THE CENTERS.
>>HILARY BOWKER: HOW MUCH COLLABORATION? I AM GATING THERE --
>>ALEJANDRO PISANTY: DIFFERENT LEVELS OF COOPERATION. IN CERTAIN COUNTRIES THERE'S A FORMAL COOPERATION. FOR INSTANCE, IN THE CASE OF BRAZIL, I THINK THAT THE MOST CLEAR CASE OF COOPERATION WILL BE BRAZIL WITH THE MANAGEMENT, BRAZILIAN MANAGEMENT COMMITTEE. AND IN OTHER COUNTRIES THE COOPERATION WE OBTAIN IS A BLISSFUL IGNORANCE TYPE OF COOPERATION. IT VARIES A LOT DEPENDING ON THE DIFFERENT COUNTRIES.
>>HILARY BOWKER: (INAUDIBLE).
(MICROPHONE IS NOT ON).
>>>: MIKE!
>>HILARY BOWKER: SORRY. BLISSFUL IGNORANCE, INDEED. MINE.
ANYWAY, SEBASTIAN.
>>SEBASTIAN BELLAGAMBA: I THINK WHAT ALEJANDRO AND VANDA HAS MENTIONED IS RELATED TO WHAT VINT SAID BEFORE, COOPERATION. IT'S A FUNDAMENTAL ELEMENT. AND I AGREE WITH ALEJANDRO. I THINK THE BRAZILIAN CASE IS THE MOST FINISHED EXAMPLE OF COOPERATION BETWEEN THE GOVERNMENT AND THE THIRD SECTOR IN OUR REGION.
IN THE CASE OF ARGENTINA, WE'RE TRYING TO LOOK TOWARDS BRAZIL AS IF WE WERE LOOKING IN A MIRROR, BECAUSE IT'S THE OPPOSITE SITUATION IN ARGENTINA. THERE'S A LACK OF COOPERATION BETWEEN THE GOVERNMENT AND THE PRIVATE SECTOR. IN THE CASE OF THE INFORMATION TECHNOLOGIES, I THINK THE LEVEL OF THE PRIVATE SECTOR IN ARGENTINA WERE BEARING THE WHOLE OF THE BURDEN. WE DO NOT HAVE SUPPORT FROM THE GOVERNMENT.
I THINK IT'S RELATED AS WELL WITH THE ECONOMIC CRISIS. WE'VE LIVED IN ARGENTINA IN THE YEAR 2001 WHEN I THINK THE LEVEL OF COOPERATION WE HAVE OBTAINED SO FAR IS NOT THE BEST ONE WE COULD HAVE OBTAINED FROM THE GOVERNMENT.
BUT I WOULD LIKE TO SAY THAT IT SEEMS CERTAIN SIGNS OF CHANGE ARE APPEARING.
THERE IS AN IMPROVEMENT IN THE COOPERATION BETWEEN THE PRIVATE SECTOR AND THE GOVERNMENT, AND THESE EFFORTS ARE AT LEAST CREATING FOUNDATION FOR A FUTURE COMMON COOPERATION.
BUT I THINK THAT THE BRIDGE IS THERE, BUT WE'RE STILL LACKING A LITTLE BIT OF COOPERATION.
>>HILARY BOWKER: THANK YOU, SEBASTIAN. (INAUDIBLE) IT HAS BEEN INVOLVED, BUT HOW MUCH COORDINATION IS THERE IN TERMS OF CREATING A COMMON INTERNET POLICY? DO YOU GET INTERFERENCE? DO YOU GET ADVICE? DO YOU GET HELP? HOW DOES IT WORK?
>>MARGARITA VALDES: THE CASE OF CHILE REGARDS THE USE OF INFORMATION TECHNOLOGIES. WE WORK WITH THE GOVERNMENT, THE COMPANIES ON INFORMATION TECHNOLOGIES, IN A STATE WE CALL A.T., PROVIDERS OF INTERNET SERVICES AND OTHER ORGANIZATIONS. AND THERE IS AN INITIATIVE TO COOPERATE AS REGARDS PUBLIC AND PRIVATE SECTOR, THIS IS CALLED DIGITAL AGENDA, WHERE THE DIFFERENT SECTORS HAVE INCORPORATED THE DIFFERENT CONCERNS ABOUT THE DIFFERENT SECTORS.
AND THEY WORK AS A KIND OF ADVICE SOCIETY TO THE GOVERNMENT. THEY GET TO THE GOVERNMENT AND TELL THEM ABOUT THE BEST DEVELOPMENTS REGARDING EXPANDING TECHNOLOGY IN CHILE. AND THAT IS SEEN IN THE LAST PROCESS OF THE WORK DONE BY THE PRIVATE SECTOR, UNIVERSITIES, IN TERMS OF TRAINING PROFESSORS, PRIMARY AND SECONDARY EDUCATION, ON THE USE OF TECHNOLOGIES, INTERNET AMONG THEM.
>>HILARY BOWKER: SO IT'S KIND OF A (INAUDIBLE).
>>MARGARITA VALDES: ABSOLUTELY, AND IT WORKS VERY WELL, SORRY. YES, IT WORKS VERY WELL IN CHILE.
>>HILARY BOWKER: (INAUDIBLE) A CONCEPT NEAR TO RAUL'S HEART SO I'M GOING TO ASK HIM TO ELABORATE A LITTLE BIT. RAUL. NO, NO, SORRY.
>>RAUL ECHEBERRIA: OKAY. THE CONCEPT I WOULD LIKE TO DEVELOP, TAKE ADVANTAGE OF PARTICIPATION OF PEOPLE AT THIS MEETING IS I WOULD SAY VERY MANY TIMES, MANY ACTORS OR STAKEHOLDERS IN THIS INTERNATIONAL DISCUSSION SAY THAT THE MOST ADVANTAGE THING FOR DEVELOPED COUNTRIES IS THE PARTICIPATION IN INTERGOVERNMENTAL. THAT IS THE WAY TO GUARANTEE TO DEVELOP IN COUNTRIES A LARGEST PARTICIPATION.
I THINK THAT WE'RE TALKING HERE, WE ARE TALKING -- THERE ARE LESSONS TO BE LEARNED, BUT I AM RESPECTFUL OF THE COUNCIL'S POINT OF VIEW, BUT I THINK THEY DON'T REPRESENT ALL THE DEVELOPING COUNTRIES OF THE REGION, ARE DEVELOPING COUNTRIES, OBVIOUSLY, FOR THE GOVERNMENT TO HAVE EFFICIENT PARTICIPATION IN ALL OF INITIAL BODIES, INTERNATIONAL FORUMS THAT EXIST TODAY, WE STILL NEED A LOT OF RESOURCES. THIS IS AN ADVANTAGE FOR A LARGE DEVELOPING COUNTRY THAT HAS CERTAIN POWER, BUT IT'S NOT THE SAME THING. IF WE TALK ABOUT CHINA, VERY RESPECTFULLY SO, THAT WE TALK ABOUT GREATER BOLIVIA, URUGUAY, THEY ARE UNDERGOING DIFFERENT REALITIES. MY VISION OF THE ISSUE IS THAT DUE TO THE LACK OF RESOURCES AND THE AMOUNT OF HUMAN RESOURCES AVAILABLE IN THE DIFFERENT STATES, THAT WE HAVE TO ESTABLISH PRIORITIES. AND THAT DOESN'T ALLOW EVERYBODY TO PARTICIPATE IN ALL OF THE FORUMS. THANKS TO THE PARTICIPATION OF THE PRIVATE SECTOR, OF THE DIFFERENT CIVIL SOCIETY, THAT WE CAN TAKE OUR !
VOICES OF OUR COMMUNITIES TO THE LARGEST PART OF THIS, NOT ONLY TALKING REGARDING INFORMATION TECHNOLOGIES OR INTERNET BUT IN MANY, MANY OTHER ENVIRONMENTS OR ATMOSPHERES SUCH AS HUMAN RIGHTS ENVIRONMENT AND THEN IN MANY OTHER PROCESSES THAT SHOULD APPLY INITIAL DISCUSSION. THAT, FOR ME, WE LEARN FROM THE PROBLEMS, THE ACTIVE ROLE WE HAVE PLAYED IN THE CIVIL SOCIETY IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR IN THE DEVELOPMENT OF ORGANIZATION, AND LATIN AMERICA. I'M TALKING ABOUT LATIN AMERICA BECAUSE (INAUDIBLE). BUT I'M SURE THE SAME THING HAPPENS IN OTHER REGIONS, TO REPRESENT THE INTERESTS OF OUR DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES AND TO TAKE AN EFFECTIVE WAY THE VOICES OF EVERY STAKEHOLDERS OR PEOPLE INVOLVED IN THIS. AND IN THE DEVELOPED COUNTRIES THERE'S TRUE ORGANIZATIONS AND IT WOULD ALLOW THE PARTICIPATION OF ALL OF THE SECTORS WITH THE STAKEHOLDERS AND NOT ONLY THOSE THAT REALLY HAVE MORE PULL AND PARTICIPATION. THAT'S THE ONLY WAY I CAN SAY (INAUDIBLE) BEFORE ME AND BOTH OF US TOGETHER BETWE!
EN THE PRIVATE SECTOR AND THE GOVERNMENT FOR THE BENEFITS OF OUR DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.
>>HILARY BOWKER: THANK YOU, RAUL.
I'M GOING TO ASK VERY, VERY BRIEFLY EDUARDO TO COMMENT ON THIS BECAUSE ONE OF THE THINGS I GOT A VERY STRONG OPINION FROM YOU, EDUARDO, YESTERDAY, THAT IN FACT, IN THE WSIS PROCESS, WITHOUT THE PRIVATE SECTOR AND WITHOUT CIVIL SOCIETY, PERU WOULD HAVE BEEN -- WOULD HAVE LOST A VERY IMPORTANT RESOURCE.
CAN YOU ELABORATE BRIEFLY ON THAT?
>>EDUARDO SANTOYO: I WOULD MAKE A COMMENT. ILLUSTRATE IN THE FIRST PHASE OF THE SUMMIT, (INAUDIBLE) AND THE CHANCELLOR OF THE APRICOT WAS AN AMBASSADOR AND A MINISTER. AND THE PACIFIC WERE TO PREPARE OR ELABORATE A DRAFT ON THE POSITION OF PERU. HARD WORK WAS DONE WITH THE PARTICIPATION OF SOME SECTORS OF THE PRIVATE SECTOR AND CIVIL SOCIETY, AND WE WERE (INAUDIBLE) FOREIGN OFFICE. TODAY, HE IS NOT THERE, HE IS NOT WORKING FOR THE GOVERNMENT, THE AMBASSADOR. I WAS DISAPPOINTED. TODAY HE IS A REPRESENTATIVE OF PERU, A REPRESENTATIVE BEFORE BOLIVIAN GOVERNMENT, AND IS THE AMBASSADOR IN AUSTRIA. SO WE LOST WITHIN THE FOREIGN OFFICE EVERY SINGLE POSSIBILITY OF A LINK TO CONTINUING THE WORK TO GO TO THE SECOND PHASE. AND TODAY, THE FOREIGN OFFICE IS GETTING PREPARED FOR WHAT'S COMING IN JUNE. SO THEY ARE NOT GETTING PREPARED, SO LET ALONE WHAT WILL HAPPEN IN TUNIS IN NOVEMBER, THE SOCIAL COMMUNITY HAS BEEN WORKING TO GATHER CONCERN FROM THE PRIVATE SECTOR AND CIVI!
L SOCIETY TO GIVE SUPPORT TO THE PERUVIAN DELEGATION, THE NATIONAL SPEAKER TO EXPRESS IN THE BRAZILIAN AS WELL AS THE TUNIS FORUMS.
>>HILARY BOWKER: THANK YOU VERY MUCH. DO YOU HAVE SOMETHING TO ADD TO THAT DISCUSSION? I MAY HAVE MISUNDERSTOOD YOU.
>>DEMI GETSCHKO: I THINK THAT -- IT'S ALL RIGHT. I MEAN, ONLY TWO OR THREE ITEMS TO BE CLARIFIED. BUT FIRST, I THINK THE COOPERATION THAT WE HAVE ALREADY COMMENTED ON IS SOMETHING THAT INTERNET CAN HAVE A VERY STRONG IMPACT. THIS IS SOMETHING REVOLUTIONARY, MAYBE A PARADIGM. MAYBE THE ELABORATION OF SOFTWARE AND THE GROUPS HAVE CREATED A CONNECTION, AND THIS CONNECTION MAKES WORKS POSSIBLE. AND THIS IS A REVOLUTIONARY ITEM. THIS IS HOW WE WORK IN A NON-PROFIT WAY.
BECAUSE THERE ARE A LOT OF DOMAINS, THIS IS SOMETHING TO DEVELOP, TO EXPERIMENT INTERNET AND TO GO FORWARD TO GET MORE PROGRESS STILL, TO PROGRESS EVEN MORE.
>>HILARY BOWKER: THANK YOU. THERE'S A SLIGHT DELAY BETWEEN THE INTERPRETING AND MY INTELLECTUAL RESPONSE.
I WONDER IF WE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FROM THE FLOOR. I KNOW WE'RE BEING VERY EXPANSIVE BUT THERE ARE CERTAIN AREAS WE'RE GOING ON. ON THE COLLABORATION, ON THE MULTI-STAKEHOLDER, ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS ANY OF YOU HAVE? I'M AFRAID WE HAVE ONLY ONE MIKE SO IT'S A QUESTION OF COMING UP AND STANDING THERE.
BUT DO WE HAVE ANY TAKERS?
YES, PLEASE COME UP TO THE MIKE.

I WILL ASK YOU PLEASE TO TELL US YOUR NAME.
>>SILVIA BIDART: MY NAME IS SILVIA BIDART. I'M A (INAUDIBLE) OF ICA OF AMERICAS AND MEMBER OF THE (INAUDIBLE) COMMITTEE FOR (INAUDIBLE) AND THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT BUT IT'S BEING DONE HERE. MORE THAN A QUESTION, SO I WANT TO MAKE A PETITION, A REQUEST FOR ALL OF US WHO ARE IN CHARGE OF SEEING A DIGITAL AGENDA, WHETHER FROM PUBLIC SECTOR OR THE PUBLIC SECTOR, THERE'S GOING TO BE ONLY ONE.
WE NEED TO REQUIRE COMPARATIVE FRAMEWORKS. WE ALL KNOW THE INITIATIVE, WE NEED TO BE IN CLOSER CONTACT TO DEVELOP THE SYNERGY, THE (INAUDIBLE) IN LATIN AMERICA.
>>HILARY BOWKER: BEFORE YOU GO AWAY, CAN YOU GIVE US A SUGGESTION HOW?
>>SILVIA BIDART: YES, THERE ARE A LOT OF SUGGESTIONS ON HOW. FOR EXAMPLE, I WOULD INSTALL SOMEWHERE IN THE ICANN OR WSIS A BODY THAT WOULD BE IN CHARGE OF THE GLOBAL WORK, TO HAVE A SPACE IN THE WEB, TO PRESENT OUR REQUEST. THE ITU IS THERE, IT'S NOT VERY NEAT, THE GOVERNMENT IS TRYING TO SEND INFORMATION BUT IT'S A LITTLE BIT INCOMPLETE. SO WE SHOULD TAKE THIS MORE SERIOUSLY FROM EACH AREA IN CHARGE OF THE DIGITAL AGENDA IN EACH COUNTRY.
IN EACH COUNTRY, I SAY. BY THE NGOS, WE SHOULD (INAUDIBLE) AND UPDATE INFORMATION, NOT ONLY WISHES. SO WE SHOULD GENERATE AMONG US KNOWLEDGE OF HOW IS THE DEGREE OF DEVELOPMENT WITH OTHER PROJECT, WHAT IS THE CONDITION, WHAT IS THE FOLLOW-UP. IF THE RESOURCES ARE STILL FUNCTIONING, IF THE ADMINISTRATIONS CHANGE OR WHO IS IN CHARGE, WHAT'S THE LAST NAME OF EVERYBODY. THAT'S MY SUGGESTION.
>>HILARY BOWKER: THANK YOU.
ALEJANDRO.
>>ALEJANDRO PISANTY: THIS REQUEST IS SOMETHING THAT MANY OF US, TECHNOLOGY IS VERY IMPORTANT AND NECESSARY. THERE ARE SOME INITIATIVES TO CREATE OBSERVATIONS ON INFORMATION SOCIETY AT THE GLOBAL LEVEL. YOU MENTIONED SOME INTERGOVERNMENTAL LEVELS, ONE ORGANIZATION OR BODY FROM CIVIL SOCIETY THAT CAN CARRY OUT CONTRIBUTION AND PRODUCTIVITY. I WOULD CALL THE MEMBERS THAT ARE PRESENT HERE, IS ALFA-REDI, AND FOR (INAUDIBLE) AND THINGS THAT CAN BE VERY INTERESTING. LAST SO YEAR THERE WAS RUMOR THAT MAYBE WE DISCUSS ONE OF THESE THINGS. SO WE CAN MAKE A CONTRIBUTION, OR YOU ALSO CAN MAKE A CONTRIBUTION TO THIS ISSUE.
>>VANDA SCARTEZINI: ANOTHER WAY OR ANOTHER FORM, A SUGGESTION, BECAUSE WE ARE THREE YEARS AHEAD FOR OUR MEETING. THIS INFORMATION ABOUT MORALS, ABOUT HOW EACH COUNTRY IN THE WORLD IS IN EACH REGION, SO REGIONAL FORUMS OF GAC. SO PROBABLY WE SHOULD GATHER ALL THE INFORMATION OF THESE WORKS THAT STARTED IN JANUARY 2003 SO THAT WAY WE COULD HAVE EXPERIENCE OF LATIN AMERICA, AFRICA, OF EASTERN EUROPE, SO TO GATHER ALL THIS INFORMATION MAYBE IN THE WEB OF GAC IN ICANN.
>>HILARY BOWKER: IDENTIFY YOURSELF, YOUR NAME.
THANK YOU.
CAN WE ASK YOU PLEASE TO IDENTIFY YOURSELF, YOUR NAME.
>>MIGUEL ALCAINE: MIGUEL ALCAINE, AMBASSADOR OF EL SALVADOR, GENEVA.
I WANT TO MAKE A COMMENT ON THE LAST INTERVENTION.
THERE IS A PROCESS FOR LATIN AMERICA THAT IS BEING (INAUDIBLE) CALLED -- OR IT'S GOING TO BE CALLED (INAUDIBLE).
IT WOULD BE VERY GOOD THAT IT WOULD BE COORDINATED WITH US ALREADY, NOT TO END UP WITH FIVE OR SIX OBSERVATORIES, TO HAVE ONLY ONE.
FOR THE TIME BEING, WE HAVE THE THIRD VERSION OF THE DOCUMENT OF SEPALA, THAT IT'S A DOCUMENT THAT FOLLOWS OF PLAN OF ACTION OF GENEVA.
AND THAT IS WORKING FAIRLY WELL.
AND THE REGION HOPES TO FOLLOW -- TO CONTINUE WORKING UNTIL THE ORIGINAL MEETING IN RIO.

>>HILARY BOWKER: BEFORE OUR NEXT QUESTIONER, DO I HAVE ANY FEEDBACK FROM THE PANEL ON THAT?
SIR.
NO, NO, YOU'RE -- I'M SORRY.
>>>>: ERICK IRIARTE: I'M ERICK IRIARTE.
BEFORE TALKING ABOUT (INAUDIBLE), I AM GOING TO TALK ABOUT SOMETHING THAT I THINK IS MUCH MORE IMPORTANT.
THE FIRST PART IS, VERY MANY GOVERNMENTS HAVE CERTAIN FUNDAMENTAL OFFICERS WORKING ON ISSUES OF THE SUMMIT.
AND OFFICIALS OF THE SAME MINISTRY IN VERY MANY CASES WORKING ON OTHER ISSUES THAT ARE RELATED TO THE INFORMATION SOCIETY AND OTHER AREAS.
BUT THEY DON'T WORK TOGETHER.
AT PRESENT, AS IT WAS SAID BY THE AMBASSADOR, SEPALA'S WORK IN THE REGIONAL STRATEGY ON THE INFORMATION SOCIETY THAT IS GOING TO BE CALLED ALAC IS GOING TO BE OFFICIALLY PRESENTED IN JUNE IN THE REGIONAL MEETING ON THE SUMMIT, THAT IS ALSO WORKING -- AND INFOLAC IS ALSO WORKING ON ANOTHER ISSUE WITH THE UNITED NATIONS THAT IS SPONSORED BY UNESCO AND OTHER GOVERNMENTAL OFFICIALS THAT ARE NOT COORDINATED AMONG THEMSELVES.
AND THERE ARE INITIATIVES REGIONALLY, FOR LATIN AMERICA, ANOTHER INITIATIVE ON WHICH PEOPLE ARE WORKING.
AND WE CAN CONTINUE WORKING REGIONAL ASSOCIATIONS AND HAVE A LOT OF ACTORS AND STOCKHOLDERS FROM THE CIVIL SOCIETY IN LATIN AMERICA, (INAUDIBLE) WHICH IS AN ASSEMBLAGE OF -- (INAUDIBLE) WITH NETWORKS, ITG, ANOTHER ORGANIZATION THAT IS TRYING TO WORK TOGETHER ON THESE NECESSARY ISSUES.
THERE ARE NO PROPOSALS FORWARDED.
AND WE DON'T GO AHEAD WITH COORDINATING WORK THAT COULD BE MAYBE FOCUSED ON SEPALA THROUGH THE ALAC PROJECT, WE ARE NOT GOING TO END UP IN -- WE ARE NOT GOING TO HAVE ANY GOOD -- WE ARE NOT GOING TO HAVE ANY SUCCESS.
IN MAY NEXT YEAR WILL BE A GOVERNMENT RELATED TO THE SUMMIT ISSUE IN QUITO, CONVENED BY INFO LACK IN SEPALA.
NOT GOVERNMENT BODIES, BUT ALSO ORIGINAL BODIES.
BUT WE DON'T HAVE ROOM FOR CIVIL SOCIETY TO PARTICIPATE.
IF THEY GATHER BY THEMSELVES, OKAY.
BUT THEY -- THE CONTRIBUTION IS COMPLICATED WHEN SPACES ARE NOT OPEN FOR -- TO DEAL WITH THESE ISSUES.
SO EVERYBODY -- WE ALL WANT TO WORK.
THE PROBLEM IS THAT WE DON'T HAVE A LEADER AND LEADERSHIP BEFORE US FOR US TO CONTINUE WORKING ON A COMMON BASIS.
>>HILARY BOWKER: I HAVE TWO QUESTIONS.
FIRST OF ALL, JUST TO CLARIFY, YOU DON'T THINK THAT CIVIL SOCIETY IS GETTING ENOUGH OF A VOICE; IS THAT CORRECT?
>> ERICK IRIARTE: NO, NOT CLEAR.
CIVIL SOCIETY CAN HAVE A VERY IMPORTANT VOICE AND HAVE A SPACE FOR THAT.
BUT WHAT HAPPENED?
I WENT TO SPEAKING ENGLISH -- ESPANOL.
IN VERY MANY CASES, CIVIL SOCIETIES ARE ONLY TO GET ACCREDITED.
SO THEY ARE CALLED TO THE ROOM, THEY SIT AT THE TABLE, AND THEY SAY, OKAY, THEY WERE HERE AT THE TABLE.
OKAY.
BUT THEY DON'T CALL ALL OF THE REPRESENTATIVES.
SO EMPHASIZE WAS PUT ON THE STAKEHOLDERS THAT COME FROM THE INFORMATICS OR COMPUTERS.
BUT THOSE WHO COME FROM TRADE UNIONS, HUMAN RESOURCES, THE CHURCH, ACADEMIC SECTOR, THEY ARE NOT INVOLVED.
SO THE WORK AT THE LEVEL WHERE THE CIVIL SOCIETY IS NOT -- DOESN'T REPRESENT ITSELF AS IT SHOULD.
>>HILARY BOWKER: I HAVE ONE MORE QUESTION.
YOU TALK ABOUT LEADERSHIP.
AND SEVERAL OF THE PANELISTS HAVE SAID TO ME THAT THERE SEEMS TO BE A DISCONNECT IN MANY COUNTRIES HERE, AND I'M SURE IT'S NOT JUST IN LATIN AMERICA, I'M SURE IT'S GLOBAL, THAT THERE IS NOT AN AWARENESS OF THE ISSUE OR THE IMPORTANCE OF ICT, FOR EXAMPLE.
I HOPE I'M NOT MISLEADING THIS POSITION.
BUT DO YOU BELIEVE THAT THERE NEEDS TO BE REGIONALLY, NATIONALLY, AND LOCALLY, NOT JUST IN LATIN AMERICA, BUT MORE WIDELY, SOME KIND OF METHOD OF MAKING THE LARGER POPULATION AWARE OF THE IMPORTANCE OF ALL OF THIS?
>> ERICK IRIATE: YES, IT IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT WHAT YOU JUST SAID.
WE DON'T HAVE CLEAR WHERE WE WANT TO GO, HOW CAN POSSIBLY TRY AND GO SOMEWHERE?
AND WHICH PATH TO TAKE?
I AM SAYING IT AGAIN.
PROBABLY THE REGIONAL PLAN.
WOULD THAT BE THE PATH TO TAKE TO DEVELOP CONCRETE POLICIES AND TO DEVELOP LAWS?
BECAUSE IT'S CONCRETE IN THE (INAUDIBLE) REGIONS WE HAVE LAWS FROM DIGITAL.
WE HAVE FIVE REGIONS.
FOUR HAVE LAWS.
AND THEY ARE NOT COMPATIBLE AMONG THEMSELVES.
AND BEYOND THIS REGION, IT'S A REGIONAL BLOC, POLITICALLY SPEAKING.
SO WE HAVE TO -- WE CAN SAY THE SAME FOR PRIVACY IN THE SAME LATIN AMERICAN REGION, WHERE EVERY SINGLE LATIN AMERICAN REGION HAVE GENERAL PRINCIPLES ON PRIVACY, MANY RULES, AND THEY ARE NOT INCLUDED IN THE ORIGINAL SUBGROUPS OR AMONG DIFFERENT COUNTRIES.
SO WE ARE TALKING OF REGIONAL PLAN, WE HAVE A LOT MORE POSSIBILITIES AND ADVANTAGE THAN WE DO NOW.
AND WE ARE GOING TO LEARN ON THE EXPERIENCE OF OTHER COUNTRIES.

>>HILARY BOWKER: MY ONE-WORD RESPONSE WOULD BE ACTIVISM.
DO I HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FROM THE FLOOR, OR COMMENTS, AT THIS STAGE?
PRETTY BROAD.
YES, EDUARDO.
NOT ON THE FLOOR, BUT THAT'S OKAY.
>>EDUARDO SANTOYO: THANK YOU.
I WILL JUST COMPLIMENT WHAT ERICK WAS SAYING, HILARY, ON THE LACK OF PARTICIPATION OF CIVIL SOCIETY.
I WANT TO SAY THAT I HAVE THE FEELING, THE IMPRESSION THAT ROOMS ARE CLOSED, PARTICIPATION ROOM IS CLOSED OR SPACES ARE CLOSED.
AND THAT'S ANOTHER WAY FROM MY PERSPECTIVE OR PERSONAL POINT OF VIEW.
THERE IS A LACK OF AWARENESS BY THE LARGEST SECTOR OF THE CIVIL SOCIETY, OKAY, ON THE PRIVATE SECTOR AS WELL, AND AWARENESS ON HOW IMPORTANT IT IS THE INFORMATION SOCIETY FOR THE DEVELOPMENT AND MUCH OF THE SCOPE OF ACTION.
SO THAT LEADS TO A LACK OF REQUESTS FOR SPACE IN THIS DISCUSSION FORUM OR SPACE YOU WANT TO TAKE PART IN.
>>HILARY BOWKER: AND I WANT TO CLARIFY.
I DIDN'T MEAN TO BE EXCLUDING PRIVATE SECTOR OR ANY -- BUT JUST A GENERAL AWARENESS AMONG THE POPULATIONS.
I'M GOING TO ACTUALLY, IN A MOMENT, START ASKING THE PANEL MEMBERS TO CONCLUDE.
AND I'VE GOT A QUESTION OR TWO FOR THEM TO DO THAT.
BUT BEFORE I DO, DO I HAVE ANY OTHER PEOPLE ON THE FLOOR WHO WOULD LIKE TO MAKE ANY COMMENT ABOUT ANY OF THIS STUFF?
BECAUSE, OBVIOUSLY, IT'S A HUGE ISSUE NOT JUST HERE, BUT GLOBALLY.
NO TAKERS?
YES.
TWO WORDS IS ALWAYS GOOD.
>>SILVIA BIDART: TO CREATE POSITIVE RESULTS, THE IMPORTANT THING IS TO STRENGTHEN THE INSTITUTIONS.
>>HILARY BOWKER: THAT'S A VERY BROAD COMMENT.
WE ALL KNOW THAT THE WSIS, THE WGIG PROCESS IS GOING ON.
WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT IT IN SOME SENSE HERE.
BUT I'M GOING TO BE LAZY AND JUST KIND OF GO FROM LEFT TO RIGHT, BECAUSE IT'S EASIER ON YOUR POOR MODERATOR, WHO'S STILL LIMPING, AT LEAST LIMPING AS YOU CAN SITTING DOWN.
WHAT I'D LIKE TO ASK EACH OF THE SPEAKERS HERE IS, WHAT TWO ISSUES AROUND THE WSIS/WGIG PROCESS CAUSE YOU MOST CONCERN?
AND I WOULD LIKE TO START WITH DEMI.
>>DEMI GETSCHKO: IN MY PERSONAL VISION AND POINT OF VIEW, WHAT ICANN DOES, AND VERY WELL SO, IS TO PROVIDE THE INFRASTRUCTURE WHERE THINGS ARE GOING TO GROW, WHERE THE CHILD WILL GROW AND GROW AND GROW.
BUT THE CONCERN OF CIVIL SOCIETY, THE INFORMATION SOCIETY, ARE OVER THAT STRUCTURE.
THAT REGARDS APPLICATION.
WE CAN HAVE ADVANTAGES AND WE CAN HAVE PROBLEMS IN A MORE COMPLICATED WAY TO SEE THINGS.
EVERYTHING GETS MIXED UP.
BUT IT'S IMPORTANT TO HAVE A CLEAR VISION OF THE STRUCTURES TO SEE OR TO GET -- THE LAWS ARE PRACTICAL AND TECHNICAL, THAT WE HAVE TO NEED A VERY STRONG STRATUM.
AS AN ENGINEER, I THINK -- I TRY TO SEPARATE BOTH ITEMS.
BUT I'M AFRAID THAT THAT MIXTURE WOULD -- ONE OF THE ACTORS OF THE TWO ISSUES WOULD SWALLOW THE OTHER ONE.

>>HILARY BOWKER: SORRY, ALEJANDRO, BEFORE YOU START, ARE YOU BASICALLY SAYING THAT A TECHNICAL, SEPARATE....
>>DEMI GETSCHKO: EXCUSE ME.
>>HILARY BOWKER: BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S MY EARS OR I'M JUST HAVING A LITTLE TROUBLE WITH THE INTERPRETATION.
OKAY.
BUT DID YOU SAY THAT IT'S NECESSARY TO KEEP THE TECHNICAL AND THE POLITICAL SEPARATE, THAT THERE'S A PROBLEM IF IT GETS MIXED?
I'M AFRAID YOU LOST ME.
>>DEMI GETSCHKO: WHAT I AM SAYING IS THAT THIS IS A PROBLEM OF LAYERS.
IT'S A LAYER PROBLEM.
SO WE HAVE TO TRY THAT IN LAYERS.
WE CANNOT MIX EVERYTHING UP AND PUT EVERYTHING IN THE SAME POT.
SO WHAT I SEE, ERICK'S CONCERN AS REGARDS CIVIL SOCIETY AS SOMETHING THAT IS ON A LEVEL, ON THE TOP -- ON THE LEVEL THAT IS ON TOP OF OTHERS, THAT IS THE LEVEL OF COORDINATION OF THE STRUCTURE ITSELF.
SO I'M CONCERNED THAT BOTH LAYERS ARE MIXED AND WE WON'T HAVE A TRUE IMAGE OF REALITY.

>>HILARY BOWKER: THANK YOU.
ALEJANDRO.
>>ALEJANDRO PISANTY: GRACIAS, HILARY.
BUILDING ON WHAT DEMI SAYS AND MY OWN CONCERNS, I HAVE TWO AS REGARDS THE -- WITH REGARD TO -- FOR THE PANEL.
WITH THE PARTICIPATION IN THE SUMMIT AND AS REGARDS TO THE WORKING GROUP ON INTERNET GOVERNANCE THAT REGARDS THE TASK WE ARE TALKING ABOUT, AND THOSE WHO TALK ON BEHALF OF DIFFERENT GROUPS, WHETHER IT IS CC, DO IT WITH -- WE REPRESENT ACTIVITY, KNOWING THERE ARE ALSO LIMITATIONS ON THIS.
AND THE SECOND IS THE OPPORTUNITY OF -- OPPORTUNITY OF WASTE OF OPPORTUNITY.
THERE IS AN ENORMOUS OPPORTUNITY TO LET THINGS GO, TO DO A LOT OF NOT USEFUL THINGS.
AND THERE IS A POSSIBLE NORMAL RISK TO WASTE OPPORTUNITIES, EVEN THE SUMMIT, IF THE RESULT OF THE SUMMIT IS A DISCUSSION THAT CONCLUDED IN A NOT-PERFECT WAY AS REGARDS A FINANCING MECHANISM FOR DEVELOPMENT OF INFORMATION SOCIETY IN SOME COUNTRIES, AND A NOT-PERFECT DISCUSSION ON INTERNET GOVERNANCE, AND WE LEAVE ASIDE THE OPPORTUNITY TO COMPROMISE, TO COMMIT CIVIL SOCIETY AND GOVERNMENT TO A GLOBAL LEVEL FOR THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE INTERNET, TO PUT INTERNET TO THE EQUITABLE USE OF DIFFERENT SOCIETY.
IF WE LEAVE THIS POSSIBILITY AWAY, INSTEAD OF TO EXPLORE, WE WILL ONLY EXPLORE THIS TO REDUCE SPAM, TO PUT TO THE DISPOSAL OF THE SOCIETY A MECHANISM THAT WOULD LIMIT THE DEVELOPMENT OF CYBER CRIME AND THE DIGITAL CONCERNS OF PROVIDERS, OF USERS WHO LIVE IN INTERNET, FOR INTERNET, AND BY INTERNET.

>>HILARY BOWKER: BEAR WITH ME HERE.
A, I MAY NOT BE ABLE TO REMEMBER THE FIRST ONE.
BUT THE SECOND ONE WAS THAT -- AND CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG -- YOU'RE WORRIED THAT IF WE CONCENTRATE ON TOO MANY THINGS, WE WON'T BE ABLE TO PROCEED WITH THE REALLY IMPORTANT THINGS?
OR AM I WAY OFF?
>>ALEJANDRO PISANTY: THE SECOND --
I'LL BE VERY GLAD.
BUT THE PHRASE I WILL USE IS IN SPANISH FIRST.
NO, TO -- TO SUMMARIZE IN SPANISH, MY WORRY IS THAT WE WILL BE FACING -- WE ARE GOING TO BE TRYING TO -- (INAUDIBLE) (NOT INTERPRETED).
>>HILARY BOWKER: BEAR WITH ME.
THE TWO MAIN CONCERNS -- NO, I'M SORRY.
I DIDN'T HEAR YOU.
>>RAUL ECHEBERRIA: CAN I ASK YOU TO PROVIDE ALSO TRANSLATION FROM MEXICAN TO SPANISH?

(LAUGHTER.)
>> YES, PLEASE.

>>HILARY BOWKER: AGAIN, VANDA, TWO MAJOR CONCERNS ON THE WSIS/WGIG FRONT.
>>VANDA SCARTEZINI: I HAVE A SIMILAR CONCERN AS REGARDS THE UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT AT THE LEVEL OF THE SUMMIT.
BECAUSE WHEN WE COMPARE THE CONCERNS IN THE DIFFERENT COUNTRIES, THE CONCEPT OF GOVERNANCE IS NOT CLEAR.
ONE TALKS ABOUT WORKING ON BASIC MANAGEMENT OF INTERCONNECTIVITY.
IN OTHER COUNTRIES, FOR INSTANCE, IN BRAZIL, WE ARE CONCERNED ABOUT THE SOFTWARE.
IN OTHER COUNTRIES, THEY ARE CONCERNED WITH THE MONEY TO FINANCE IT ALL.
SO I THINK THAT GOVERNANCE IS LIKE THE COUNTRY GOVERNMENT OR WORLD GOVERNMENT.
ALL OF US WILL PARTICIPATE, BUT EACH ONE OF US, WE HAVE TO HAVE A CLEAR POSITION.
SO IN HANDLING OF THIS WORK OF WSIS, THE PEOPLE, THEY HAVE TO HAVE VERY CLEAR IN MIND AND TO HAVE THOROUGH INFORMATION ABOUT THE ISSUES THEY ARE DISCUSSING.
THEY HAVE TO HAVE CLEAR IN MIND WHAT ARE THE MAIN GOALS, THE MAIN ITEMS AS REGARDS THE DIFFERENT COUNTRIES TO SET UP THEIR PRIORITIES.
THIS IS SOMETHING THAT I CANNOT FEEL AS TIME GOES BY, THINGS ARE NOT FALLING IN PLACE.
WE HAVE TO SET UP CERTAIN FOCUSING POINTS.
HOW ARE WE GOING TO END UP IN NOVEMBER?
ARE WE GOING TO OFFER OUR GENERAL DECLARATION, OUR GENERAL STATEMENT ABOUT EVERYTHING?
I THINK WE'LL FIND A PROBLEM IN THAT CASE, AS ALEJANDRO IS SAYING.
WE'RE GOING TO LOSE AN IMPORTANT OPPORTUNITY TO MAINTAIN A SYSTEM OF COOPERATION AT THE DIFFERENT LAYERS.
ALL THOSE LAYERS THAT ARE NECESSARY TO HAVE A REAL GOVERNANCE, A REAL INFORMATION SOCIETY.
THANK YOU.

>>HILARY BOWKER: THANK YOU, VANDA.
SEBASTIAN.
>>SEBASTIAN BELLAGAMBA: IT'S VERY EASY AFTER ALL THE THINGS THAT HAVE ALREADY BEEN SAID, BECAUSE I AGREE WITH WHAT THE PREVIOUS SPEAKERS HAVE MENTIONED.
I THINK THERE ARE TWO MAIN ISSUES.
THEY'RE A PART OF THE SAME PROCESS.
AND, FIRST OF ALL, CONFUSION; AND SECOND OF ALL, IGNORANCE.
FIRST OF ALL, TO DISCUSS ON A FRAMEWORK YOU DON'T KNOW ABOUT, IT'S A VERY BAD OR ILL-CONCEIVED FRAMEWORK.
AND, SECOND, IF YOU DON'T EVEN SHARE THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE REST OF THE PARTICIPANTS AND YOU DON'T KNOW WHERE THEY'RE TRYING TO GO OR YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE REALLY REPRESENTING, THIS IS GOING TO CREATE UTTER CHAOS.
I THINK THESE ARE THE TWO MAIN PROBLEMS: CONFUSION AND IGNORANCE.
THANK YOU.

>>HILARY BOWKER: THANK YOU.
RAUL.
>>RAUL ECHEBERRIA: OKAY.
I HAVE TO THINK ABOUT MY TWO MAIN CONCERNS.
I'M GOING TO LIMIT MY PRESENTATION AS REGARDS THE INTERNET GOVERNANCE, BECAUSE IF I START THINKING ABOUT THE WHOLE PROCESS OF THE SUMMIT, THEN IT WON'T BE TWO CONCERNS, BUT A THOUSAND CONCERNS.
AS REGARDS INTERNET GOVERNANCE AND FOLLOWING ON THE PREVIOUS INTERVENTION, MY MAIN CONCERN WOULD BE PROBABLY THE LACK OF CLARITY.
AS REGARDS THE REPRESENTING OF THE INTEREST OF THE DEVELOPING COUNTRIES, I THINK THERE IS AN ILL HANDLING, AN ILL MANAGEMENT OF THIS ISSUE.
THERE IS ALWAYS A WRONG REPRESENTATION OF THIS INTEREST, MAYBE BECAUSE OUR COUNTRIES ARE NOT PARTICIPATING AS THEY SHOULD, OR ARE NOT TAKING ADVANTAGE AS THEY SHOULD.
BUT IT'S CLEAR FOR ME THAT THIS CURRENT MODEL OF SELF-REGULATION HAS BEEN VERY BENEFICIAL, VERY PROFITABLE FOR OUR COMMUNITIES.
IN THE CASE OF ICANN, THERE IS A GROUP OF 25 TO 30 PEOPLE FROM LATIN AMERICA THAT ARE HIGHLY ESTEEMED AND THAT HAVE INFLUENCE ON THE DECISIONS OF ICANN.
THIS AS REGARDS THE INTERNATIONAL GOVERNMENTAL ORGANIZATIONS OR GOVERNMENTAL MEETINGS IS NOT THE CASE.
AND WE HAVE ALSO REPRESENTING THE POSITION OF OUR GOVERNMENTS OF OUR OWN COUNTRIES.
AND I THINK THIS IS A GOOD SYSTEM SO AS TO AVOID THE ISOLATION OF OUR COMMUNITIES AND THAT WE CAN MAINTAIN OUR INFLUENCE ON THE DECISION-MAKING PROCESS.
MY SECOND CONCERN IS RELATED TO THE FACT THAT I HAVE THE FORTUNE OR MAYBE -- OR THE MISFORTUNE OF BEING PART OF THE WORK GROUP OF THE INTERNET GOVERNANCE PROJECT.
I HAVE THE POSSIBILITY TO BRING MY VIEWPOINTS TO THIS GROUP.
BUT ONCE THIS TASK IS ENDED, THE NEGOTIATION WILL BE LEFT IN THE HANDS OF THE GOVERNMENT.
AND THIS IS MY SECOND CONCERN, MAYBE THE LACK OF UNDERSTANDING IN BETWEEN THE DIFFERENT GOVERNMENTS COULD CAUSE DELAYS OR WOULD HINDER THE DEVELOPMENT PROCESS.
ICANN IS VERY YOUNG ORGANIZATION; IT'S ONLY EIGHT YEARS OLD -- NO, SEVEN, LESS THAN SEVEN.
IT'S JUST SIX YEARS AND A HALF OLD.
IN COMPARISON WITH 140 YEARS OF THE INTERNATIONAL TELECOMMUNICATIONS ORGANIZATION.
THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS THAT WE HAVE TO IMPROVE.
WE CANNOT DEPEND JUST ON ONE GOVERNMENT.
I THINK EVERYBODY AGREES THERE IS CONSENSUS.
BUT I FEEL THAT A LACK OF UNDERSTANDING IN THE NEGOTIATION PROCESS BETWEEN JUNE AND NOVEMBER COULD PREVENT THE ACHIEVEMENT OF THESE IMPROVEMENTS THAT WE'RE ALL WAITING FOR.

>>HILARY BOWKER: MARGARITA.
>>MARGARITA VALDES: AS REGARDS THE IDEA OF RAUL, I THINK WE HAVE TO BEAR IN MIND THE FACT THAT THIS PROCESS SHOULD NOT HINDER OR SHOULD NOT GO AGAINST THINGS THAT ARE WORKING SMOOTHLY NOW AND MAKE THE OTHER PARTICIPATION MODEL MORE FOCUSED ON THE OTHER GOVERNMENTS, THEN THE OTHERS ARE GOING TO LOSE THE POSSIBILITY OF PARTICIPATING THAT WE HAVE.
AND I THINK THE STABILITY OF THE INTERNET IS OF PARAMOUNT IMPORTANCE FOR THE WHOLE COMMUNITY.
SO TO ENDANGER THIS STABILITY WOULD BE A REAL RISK IF IT ENDS UP NOT WORKING IN THE END.
>>HILARY BOWKER: EDUARDO.
>>EDUARDO SANTOYO: MY CONCERN IS RELATED TO OUR COLLEAGUE FROM BRAZIL HAS MENTIONED THE LACK OF INSTITUTIONAL REPRESENTATION.
THERE IS A LACK OF A STRUCTURAL PROCESS, A PARTICIPATION OF THE GOVERNMENTS IN OUR COUNTRIES WITHIN THE REGIONAL CONTEXT.
AND WHAT WE WANT IS A DISCUSSION PROCESS SUPPORTED AT A GLOBAL LEVEL.
AS AN EXAMPLE, THE ORGANIZATION OF AMERICAN STATES, THE ANDEAN COMMUNITY.
THEY KNOW ABOUT CALICOM.
BUT THIS DISCUSSION HAS NOT BEEN TREATED FORMALLY AT A REGIONAL LEVEL WITHIN THE INSTITUTIONAL FRAMEWORK.
NOR IN THE REGIONAL -- NEITHER AT THE LEVEL OF THE REGIONAL NOR THE LOCAL LEVEL OR NATIONAL LEVEL.
SO WE'RE GOING TO MISS THE TRAIN HERE, AS ALEJANDRO HAS SAID, AND WE ARE GOING TO END UP WITH PLAN OF ACTION AND A DECLARATION OF PRINCIPLES THAT WOULD JUST SERVE TO OCCUPY SOME ROOM IN DIGITAL LIBRARIES OR IN PAPER LIBRARIES WITH NO SPECIFIC ACTION IN THE PROGRESS TOWARDS THE ACHIEVEMENT OF OUR GOALS.
AND THIS LACK OF INSTITUTIONALIZATION WILL HINDER OR WILL OFFER AN OPPORTUNITY FOR THE SMART (INAUDIBLE) THAT WILL SEE THE OPPORTUNITY IN VERY TURBULENT WATER TO TAKE ADVANTAGE FOR THEIR OWN POCKETS.
AND THESE TYPE OF OPPORTUNITIES APPEAR THANKS TO THE LACK OF ORGANIZATION.
SOMEBODY LOSES; SOMEBODY WINS.
>>HILARY BOWKER: I -- (INAUDIBLE) TO END THIS ON.
I WOULD LIKE TO THANK THE PANEL.
I WOULD LIKE TO SAY PLEASE DON'T GO AWAY.
BECAUSE IT'S NOT OVER YET.
SO BEAR WITH US.
AND THIS PANEL, IF YOU GUYS COULD GO SIT IN THE FRONT, OR MAYBE THERE'S ROOM ALONG THE SIDE.
AND THERE ARE -- PANEL NUMBER 2, IT'S TIME FOR YOU TO COME.
AND I WILL SAY THAT THE DISCUSSION, I THINK -- I GOT AN IMPRESSION THE DISCUSSION IS GOING TO GET BROADER, BUT ALSO PERHAPS A LITTLE MORE FOCUSED THIS TIME.
SO WE SHALL SEE.
WE'RE NOT GOING AWAY, EITHER.
WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK.
BUT IT'S JUST A SHORT....
>>HILARY BOWKER: I'M GOING TO ASK YOU TO PLEASE START TAKING YOUR SEATS.
LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, THANKS VERY MUCH FOR BEING PATIENT.
AGAIN, I TAKE A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE FACT THAT WE STARTED LATE. IT TOOK ME A WHILE TO GET MY BEARINGS AFTER MY LITTLE TUMBLE. SO WE'RE GOING TO BEGIN NOW THE SECOND SESSION OF THIS PANEL, WHICH IS TAKING SOME OF THE ISSUES WE HEARD BEFORE ONTO A BROADER, PERHAPS MORE GLOBAL PERSPECTIVE. AND THAT IS GLOBAL INTERNET GOVERNANCE, VIEWS AND -- OOPS, VIEWS AND PERSPECTIVES.
THIS IS NOT JUST ABOUT ICANN. IT'S ALSO ABOUT INTERNET GOVERNANCE GENERALLY. AND I'D ASK YOU ALL TO KEEP THAT IN MIND.
AND I'M AGAIN GOING TO ASK MY PANELISTS TO KEEP THEIR INITIAL ANSWERS TO ABOUT THREE MINUTES AND THEN WE WILL TRY TO TAKE IT TO THE FLOOR.
I WILL ALSO ASK THE FLOOR -- THAT MEANS YOU PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING TO BE ASKING QUESTIONS FROM THE FLOOR -- TO KEEP IT RELATIVELY BRIEF. AND LET'S TRY AND KEEP THIS CONVERSATION MOVING ON AS MUCH AS WE CAN.
I KNOW THAT VITTORIO EARLIER MAY HAVE WANTED TO MENTION, OR IF YOU DID, VITTORIO, BEAR WITH ME, DID YOU MENTION THE STATEMENT YOUR GROUP HAS COME UP WITH? OKAY. AND THOSE ARE AVAILABLE IF YOU WANT THEM.
BUT I THINK WITHOUT FURTHER ADO WE SHOULD ASK OUR HOST TO BEGIN. AND I KNOW THE AMBASSADOR IS VERY INTERESTED IN THE ROLES OF INTERNATIONAL ORGANIZATIONS ON ISSUES RELATED TO INTERNET GOVERNANCE, AND ALSO HOW THE BALANCE BETWEEN GOVERNMENTS, PRIVATE SECTOR AND CIVIL SOCIETY CAN BE MAINTAINED.
AMBASSADOR.
>>AMBASSADOR ILEANA DI GIOVAN: THANK YOU, HILARY.
I THINK THAT AFTER THE DIALOGUE OF THE PREVIOUS PANEL, IT'S NECESSARY TO REFER TO THESE ISSUES.
OFTENTIMES WE'VE HEARD AND THERE'S A LOT OF BIBLIOGRAPHY IN THE SENSE THAT TECHNOLOGY AND THE APPLICATIONS RELATED TO THE USE OF THE INTERNET HAVE ENTIRELY CHANGED OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS.
OFTENTIMES, AS WELL, WE'VE HEARD THAT INTERNET HAS CHANGED THE WAY OF PRODUCING, COMMERCIALIZING, DOING BUSINESS, EXCHANGE OF INFORMATION AND TECHNICAL KNOWLEDGE.
SCIENTIFIC AND TECHNICAL KNOWLEDGE FAVORS DISCUSSION, BUT ALSO FAVORS CONFRONTATION AND CRITICS. THERE IS WIDESPREAD INFORMATION, MORE TRANSPARENCY IN THE EXCHANGE OF INFORMATION, BUT I WANT TO MAKE HERE A WARNING. IT'S A WARNING MADE BY NICHOLAS NEGROPONTE, AND IT'S TRUE, BYTES ARE CHANGING THE ORGANIZATION, BOTH THE ORGANIZATION OF SOCIETIES AS WELL AS PRIVATE COMPANIES AS WELL AS INTERNATIONAL ORGANIZATIONS AND THE WAY IN WHICH WE DEAL WITH THE DISCUSSIONS AND THE DIALOGUES.
INTERNET IS ALSO A UNIQUE OPPORTUNITY AND INCREDIBLE TOOL TO FULFILL DEVELOPMENT OBJECTIVES. AND THIS IS ESSENTIAL, AN ESSENTIAL ELEMENT FOR DEVELOPING COUNTRIES, AS WELL, TOO, FOR FUTURE DEVELOPMENT.
BUT AS I'VE HEARD MY FRIEND PANKAJ (??) YESTERDAY, NO PUBLIC POLICIES HAVE BEEN DESIGNED YET SO AS TO FACE THE TECHNOLOGICAL CHALLENGES IN OUR COUNTRIES. WE'RE STILL MISSING PUBLIC POLICIES. THERE ARE STILL A LOT OF REGULATIONS THAT ARE MISSING. THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS TO DO IN THE TECHNOLOGICAL FIELD, IN WHICH FRAMEWORK, IN WHICH ORGANIZATION SHOULD BE DISCUSSED. AND PUSH FORWARD THE GOVERNANCE OF THE INTERNET.
AND WHICH ORGANIZATION AND WHICH FRAMEWORK ARE WE GOING TO INTRODUCE THESE PUBLIC POLICIES? AT A NATIONAL LEVEL AND AT AN INTERNATIONAL LEVEL. AND WHICH ORGANIZATION ARE WE GOING TO TALK ABOUT DEVELOPMENT, THE DEVELOPMENT THAT IS LINKED TO THE INTERNET? AND THIS IS A PERSONAL OPINION, BECAUSE ARGENTINA HAS NOT DEFINED YET ITS POSITION IN THE SENSE I CANNOT SEE IN THE NEAR HORIZON AN INTERNATIONAL ORGANIZATION THAT A SUITABLE FOR THIS FUNCTION, FOR THIS MANDATE.
AND I CANNOT SEE IT, BECAUSE IN MY EXPERIENCE, LONG EXPERIENCE OF INTERNATIONAL ORGANIZATIONS, CERTAIN OF THEM ARE FOCUSED ON OUR REGULATIONS, CERTAIN ARE FOCUSED ON A CORPORATION, OTHERS ARE FOCUSED ON DISCUSSION. BUT TO BE TRUE, TO BE HONEST, I CANNOT SEE AN ADEQUATE ONE, A SUITABLE ONE, AT LEAST IN THE PRESENT SITUATION, TO RESPOND TO THESE NEEDS.
THAT'S WHY WE'RE HERE TODAY. THAT'S WHY WE CREATED THE SPECIAL WORKING GROUP ON THE INTERNET GOVERNANCE. THAT'S WHY WE'RE DISCUSSING IN GENEVA ALL OPPORTUNITIES, THESE ISSUES. THAT'S WHY THE MINISTER OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS IN ARGENTINA ARE STAKEHOLDERS.
THE CIVIL SOCIETY, AND THE PRIVATE SECTOR, AS WELL AS GOVERNMENT REPRESENTATIVES TO DISCUSS THIS ISSUE.
AND THAT'S WHY WE'RE ORGANIZING ORIGINAL MEETING, A MODEST MEETING TO TRY TO TALK ON THESE ISSUES.
THANK YOU.
>>HILARY BOWKER: THANK YOU, AMBASSADOR.
I THINK NOW I'D LIKE TO DO A LITTLE BIT OF A TURN, BECAUSE WE'VE GOT THE MAN HERE WHO LEADS THE WORKING GROUP ON INTERNET GOVERNANCE IN GENEVA AND AROUND THE WORLD, AND SOMETIMES I THINK HE HAS A JOB THAT'S MORE DIFFICULT THAN MINE, BECAUSE HE HAS TO HERD CATS ALL THE TIME. BUT MARKUS KUMMER MADE A COMMENT TO ME YESTERDAY WHICH WE HAVE TO KEEP IN MIND WHICH IS WGIG IS NOT WSIS OR VICE VERSA. WGIG IS A PART OF WSIS AND I HAVE TO SAY SOMETIMES YOU GET CONFUSED WITH SOME OF THE ACRONYMS, ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY'RE PRONOUNCED DIFFERENTLY.
BUT GIVEN WHAT YOU WERE HEARING A LITTLE BIT EARLIER TODAY, AND CERTAINLY THERE WAS ONE MESSAGE THAT AT LEAST KEEP TALKING IS RELEVANT TO WHAT YOU ARE DOING, COULD YOU ELABORATE A LITTLE BIT FOR THE AUDIENCE?
>>MARKUS KUMMER: THANK YOU, HILARY. JUST A SMALL CORRECTION. I'M NOT LEADING THE WORKING GROUP. I'M THE HUMBLE SERVANT OF THE WORKING GROUP. TWO EMINENT MEMBERS OF THE WORKING GROUP ARE SITTING HERE AT THE TABLE.
YOU'RE RIGHT. THERE SEEMS TO BE SOMETIMES SOME CONFUSION ABOUT THE INSTITUTIONAL SETUP, AND I KNOW THIS IS EXTREMELY BORING AND CERTAINLY NOT VERY INTERESTING FOR PEOPLE LIKE ENGINEERS WHO ARE DEALING WITH THE INTERNET ON A DAILY BASIS. BUT NEVERTHELESS, I WOULD LIKE TO ELABORATE A LITTLE BIT.
THE WGIG, IN A WAY, WAS OUTSOURCED FROM THE WSIS PROCESS FOR SEVERAL REASONS. THE MAIN REASON, PERHAPS, THAT WAS THE RULES OF PROCEDURE OF THE WSIS WHICH DID NOT ALLOW FOR WHAT WAS SEEN BY MANY, INADEQUATE PARTICIPATION OF NONGOVERNMENT ACTORS IN THE DISCUSSIONS.
BUT OF COURSE, WE ARE LINKED TO THE WSIS IN MANY WAYS, AND THE RESULT OF OUR WORK WILL BE PRESENTED TO THE WSIS AND WILL SERVE AS A BASIS FOR THE NEGOTIATION.
BUT I SAY THIS BECAUSE WE HAVE BEEN ABLE TO CREATE A VERY OPEN PROCEDURE WHICH ALLOWS ALL STAKEHOLDERS TO PARTICIPATE ON AN EQUAL FOOTING.
SINCE I HAD LAST THE OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK TO YOU AT THE MEETING IN CAPE TOWN, WE HAVE PROGRESSED IN OUR WORK AND WE ALSO HAD AN INTERACTION WITH THE WSIS PREPCOM AT OUR LAST MEETING. AND I WAS VERY ENCOURAGED BY THIS INTERACTION, BECAUSE OUR PRELIMINARY REPORT WAS RECEIVED VERY POSITIVELY BY GOVERNMENTS FROM NORTH AND SOUTH, EAST AND WEST, BY PRIVATE SECTOR AND BY CIVIL SOCIETY.
BUT MAY I BRIEFLY ALSO REMIND THE AUDIENCE WHAT ARE THE THREE MAIN QUESTIONS THAT THE GROUP IS SUPPOSED TO ANSWER. THAT IS, ONE, CREATE A WORKING -- DEVELOP A WORKING DEFINITION OF INTERNET GOVERNANCE; TWO, IDENTIFY PUBLIC POLICY ISSUES, AND THREE, DEVELOP A COMMON UNDERSTANDING OF THE ROLES AND RESPONSIBILITIES OF THE DIFFERENT ACTORS INVOLVED. AND THAT IS PRECISELY THE POINT OUR HOST MADE IN HER INTERVENTION RIGHT NOW.
AND THE LAST QUESTION IS MAYBE THE MOST DIFFICULT QUESTION, I WOULD HAVE THOUGHT.
THERE ARE PAPERS OUT ON THESE ISSUES. ONE ON THIS LAST QUESTION WAS POSTED YESTERDAY. BUT I WOULD, AS A MESSAGE, ALSO SAY DON'T JUDGE THE WGIG BY ITS OUTPUT AND THE QUALITY OF ITS PAPERS ALONE. THE PROCESS IS ALMOST AS IMPORTANT, IF NOT MORE IMPORTANT.
WE ARE TRYING TO CREATE A SPACE FOR AN ISSUE-ORIENTED POLICY DIALOGUE, TO CREATE THE CLIMATE OF TRUST AND CONFIDENCE AMONG ALL THE PARTIES. AND WE ARE ALSO TRYING TO ESTABLISH A SUCCESSFUL EXPERIMENT IN MULTI-STAKEHOLDER COOPERATION.
AND LET ME CONCLUDE BY CALLING ON ALL OF YOU PRESENT HERE TO KEEP ENGAGED ON THE PROCESS, TO SUBMIT COMMENTS TO OUR WEB SITE AND FIND THE DETAILS AND TO PARTICIPATE IN OUR MEETING. THE BETTER INFORMED OUR OUTPUT WILL BE AND THE MESSAGE TO THE SUMMIT, I THINK THE HIGHER THE CHANCES THAT DECISION WILL BE TAKEN WITH ALL THE FACTS, BEARING IN MIND ALL THE FACTUAL SITUATIONS. THANK YOU.
>>HILARY BOWKER: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, INDEED, MARKUS. I'M GOING TO MOVE TO THE PRESIDENT OF THE GAC. I KNOW THE GAC COMMISSION IS NOT YET FULLY DEVELOPED, BUT IF YOU COULD WEAR YOUR GAC HAT JUST FOR A MOMENT, PLEASE, SHARIL, AND TELL US WHAT THE GAC'S PERSPECTIVE IS ON THIS, PLEASE.
>>SHARIL TARMIZI: THANK YOU, HILARY. AND BUENOS TARDES TO THE AUDIENCE.
THE SHORT ANSWER IS THERE IS NO GAC PERSPECTIVE ON THIS BECAUSE GOVERNMENTS WHO PARTICIPATE IN THE WSIS ARE PARTICIPATING IN THEIR OWN CAPACITY, IN THEIR OWN POSITION.
WHAT I CAN SAY IS THAT THERE ARE, IN SOME AREAS, COMMON AREAS OF UNDERSTANDING AND COMMON AREAS OF ACCEPTANCE ON CERTAIN ISSUES.
BUT IF I CAN JUST TURN VERY BRIEFLY TO WHAT IT IS THAT WE ARE TRYING TO ACHIEVE IN THE GAC IS THAT IT IS A UNIQUE COLLECTION OF GOVERNMENTS INTERESTED IN THE INTERNET AND THE OPERATION OF THE DNS. AND OUR MEMBERS ACTUALLY COME FROM VARIOUS BRANCHES OF GOVERNMENT. SOME OF THE SPEAKERS EARLIER TODAY WERE TALKING ABOUT VARIOUS LEVELS OF PARTICIPATION AS WELL AS VARIOUS LEVELS OF CONCERNS. THIS IS THE SAME IN THE CASE OF GOVERNMENTS.
AND WHERE WE ARE UNIQUE IS THAT THE CHOICE OF REPRESENTATION FROM THE BRANCH OF GOVERNMENT INTO THE GAC IS DETERMINED BY THE COUNTRY ITSELF.
IN SEVERAL CASES, FOR EXAMPLE, MEMBERS OF THE GAC HAVE INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBILITIES THAT GO BEYOND THE SCOPE OF WHAT IS DISCUSSED IN THE GAC AND ICANN. SO THE VALUE THAT WE BRING IS THAT WE ARE ABLE TO BRING A BROADER POLICY PERSPECTIVE, PUBLIC POLICY PERSPECTIVE TO THE DISCUSSIONS THAT'S HAPPENING IN THE ICANN COMMUNITIES.
AND I'LL SORT OF STOP THERE.
>>HILARY BOWKER: JUST TO CLARIFY, SHARIL IS WEARING TWO HATS TODAY. HE IS SPEAKING BRIEFLY, AND THAT WAS IT, IN TERMS OF GAC. FROM NOW ON, HE IS GOING TO BE REPRESENTING MALAYSIA. SO JUST SO THERE'S NO CONFUSION.
BUT BEFORE WE COME BACK TO HIM TO REPRESENT MALAYSIA, I'M GOING TO ASK OUR OTHER GOVERNMENT REPRESENTATIVE HERE, PANKAJ AGRAWALA, FROM INDIA, TO SAY WHAT'S THE INDIAN STAND ON THIS, PLEASE.
>>PANKAJ AGRAWALA: THANKS, HILARY. IF I COULD BRIEFLY ELABORATE THE THREE IMPORTANT FUNCTIONS THAT WE SEE THAT ARE ALLOCATED TO INTERNET GOVERNANCE.
THE FIRST ONE IS SET THE TECHNICAL STANDARDS TO ENSURE THE STABLE AND SECURE SYSTEM OF UNIQUE IDENTIFIERS. NUMBER TWO, RUN RESOURCE ALLOCATION AND ASSIGNMENT SYSTEM IN A FAIR AND COORDINATED MANNER. AND NUMBER THREE, FORMULATE AND IMPLEMENT A POLICY OF DISPUTE RESOLUTION AND TACKLING OF CRIME AND CONFLICT.
AND IN THESE THREE LEVELS WE FIND THAT THE INTERNET IS GOVERNED BY A VARIETY OF STAKEHOLDERS, ACTORS, AND, I WOULD SAY, POLICY PRACTITIONERS ON THE GOVERNMENT SIDE.
NOW, IDEALLY, INTERNET GOVERNANCE WOULD BE IN THE HANDS OF AN INSTITUTION WHICH WOULD USE THE FOLLOWING FOUR PRINCIPLES.
FIRST, IN ORDER TO PRESERVE THE STABILITY, THE SECURITY, AND GLOBAL INTEROPERABILITY OF THE INTERNET, A NONEXCLUSIVE, MULTI-STAKEHOLDER -- I'M NOT USING THE WORD MULTI-LATERAL -- ACCESS TO ADMINISTRATIVE AND DISTRIBUTIVE REGIME. THAT IS THE FIRST ATTRIBUTE OF A GOOD INTERNET GOVERNANCE INSTITUTION.
SECOND, IT SHOULD PROMOTE WELL-INFORMED DECISIONS BASED ON EXPERT TECHNICAL ADVICE, MAINTAINING TECHNOLOGY-NEUTRAL STANDARDS OF INTEROPERABILITY IN THE MULTI-LAYERED ARCHITECTURE. I DON'T NEED TO SAY ANY MORE.
THIRD, ASSURE A DECENT POLICY MAKING STRUCTURE, RECOGNIZING THAT GOVERNMENT AND PUBLIC AUTHORITIES ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR PUBLIC POLICY, AND AT THE SAME TIME, THE PRIVATE SECTOR HAS A ROLE TO PLAY IN ALL DECISION-MAKING PROCESSES.
THE ACCESS AND MULTI-LINGUALISM AND ALL THOSE LOCAL ISSUES WHICH ARE TACKLED AT NATIONAL GOVERNMENTS' LEVEL ARE ADDRESSED.
AND THE LAST, INTRODUCING AND FOSTERING COMPETITION TO ASSURE THE BEST DEAL FOR THE CONSUMER IN THE MARKET.
SO THESE FOUR PRINCIPLES, IF THEY FIT INTO ANY INSTITUTION, I WOULD SAY THAT THE INTERNET GOVERNANCE WOULD BE IN SAFE HANDS.
I'LL STOP AT THAT POINT.
>>HILARY BOWKER: YOU'VE JUST BANKED 30 SECONDS.
I'M GOING TO -- SHARIL, I'M GOING TO COME BACK TO YOU, BECAUSE I'D LIKE TO KIND OF GET THE GOVERNMENT PERSPECTIVES TOGETHER, AND WHERE DOES MALAYSIA STAND?
>>SHARIL TARMIZI: THANK YOU, HILARY.
BY WAY OF BACKGROUND, MALAYSIA HAS BEEN PROMOTING THE CONCEPT OF CONVERGENCE OF THE COMMUNICATIONS IN MULTIMEDIA SECTOR AND SELF-REGULATION.
OKAY. I'M SORRY ABOUT THAT.
MALAYSIA HAS BEEN PROMOTING THE CONCEPT OF CONVERGENCE ON THE COMMUNICATIONS AND MULTIMEDIA SECTOR, WHICH INCLUDES THE INTERNET, AND SELF-REGULATION SINCE 1988.
NOW, THIS WAS PART OF A BROADER ICT DEVELOPMENT POLICY WHERE WE RECOGNIZED THAT THE MULTI-STAKEHOLDER APPROACH IS VERY NECESSARY IN MOVING THE COUNTRY FORWARD AS PART OF OUR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AGENDA.
WE ALSO RECOGNIZED THAT EACH STAKEHOLDER HAS A DISTINCT ROLE AND FUNCTION. EACH IS IMPORTANT IN THEIR OWN CONSTRUCT, BUT THERE IS MUTUAL RESPECT AND RECOGNITION OF THE DIFFERENT LEADERSHIP ROLES THAT EACH PARTY UNDERTAKES.
AS AN EXAMPLE, GOVERNMENTS, AT LEAST FROM THE MALAYSIAN EXPERIENCE, HAVE A DISTINCT ROLE IN PUBLIC POLICY, SETTING UP FRAMEWORKS, SETTING THE RIGHT ENVIRONMENT.
THE PRIVATE SECTOR HAS A DISTINCT ROLE IN THE IMPLEMENTATION, PROVIDING CHOICE, PROVIDING COMPETITION AND SERVICES.
CIVIL SOCIETY HAS A DISTINCT ROLE IN CAPACITY BUILDING AS WELL AS PROVIDING FEEDBACK TO THE TWO OTHER STAKEHOLDERS IN THE TRIPARTITE OR MULTI-STAKEHOLDER RELATIONSHIP.
FOR US, LEAD FUNCTIONS ARE ENTRUSTED TO PARTIES BEST SUITED TO PERFORM THAT ROLE. SO, FOR EXAMPLE, WE DON'T TRY TO DO SOMETHING THAT ANOTHER PARTY HAS BEEN IDENTIFIED TO BE A BETTER -- HAS BETTER CAPABILITY TO DO.
THIS IS VERY RELEVANT, BECAUSE WE RECOLLECTIONS THAT, GOING FORWARD, TRADITIONAL ROLES AND FUNCTIONS NEED TO EVOLVE, AND NEED TO TAKE INTO ACCOUNT THE CHALLENGES AND THE OPPORTUNITIES THAT THE INFORMATION SOCIETY BRINGS.
WE BELIEVE, FOR EXAMPLE, IT IS IMPORTANT IN THE GLOBAL CONSTRUCT FOR THERE TO BE RECOGNITION OF THE DIFFERENT ROLES AND FUNCTIONS THAT EACH PARTY BRINGS TO THE TABLE.
HAVING SAID THAT, WE DO NOT FEEL THAT WE HAVE TO IMPOSE OUR EXPERIENCE ON OTHERS, PREFERRING TO SHARE THE EXPERIENCE AND PREFERRING TO LEARN FROM THE EXPERIENCE OF OTHERS.
THANK YOU.
>>HILARY BOWKER: THANK YOU, SHARIL.
BEFORE I MOVE ON TO THE PRIVATE SECTOR, AND WE'VE GOT TWO PRIVATE SECTOR REPRESENTATIVES HERE, I'D LIKE TO ASK ALEJANDRO, FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF ACADEMIA, WHERE THIS IS ALL GOING, AND CERTAINLY YOU ARE NOT JUST A MEMBER OF THE ICANN BOARD BUT ALSO ON THE WGIG WORKING GROUP.
YOU'VE HEARD SOME OF THE THINGS THAT -- YOU WERE AMONGST THE GROUP EARLIER. HOW IS THIS PLAYING OUT INTO THE OVERALL CONCERNS ABOUT HOW WE MOVE FORWARD?
>>ALEJANDRO PISANTY: THE WORKING GROUP HAS A VERY BROAD DISCUSSION, AS A MULTI-STAKEHOLDER DISCUSSION. IT'S DIFFICULT TO PREDICT THE FINAL CONCLUSIONS. AS A MEMBER OF THE GROUP, I CANNOT JUDGE UPON THE FINAL RESULT.
WHAT I CAN GUARANTEE, THOUGH, IS AFTER THE DISCUSSION OF THE AMBASSADOR, I AM FULLY CONVINCED, AND I THINK I CAN STATE FREELY ABOUT THIS, IS THAT THERE IS NO (INAUDIBLE) THE INSTITUTION. AND PROBABLY IT WOULDN'T BE ONE SINGLE INSTITUTION WILL RESPOND TO ALL OF THE REQUIREMENTS PRESENTED BY THE AMBASSADOR. FOR INSTANCE, AN INSTITUTION THAT WILL BE ABLE TO SET UP ALL THE TECHNICAL STANDARDS, ALL THE RULES TO FIGHT CYBERCRIME. BUT I'M SURE IT'S ALL THE POSSIBLE ORGANIZATIONS WILL APPEAR WILL HAVE THE ADEQUATE MECHANISMS THAT WILL BE IN CHARGE OF THESE DIFFERENT TASKS. THE MOST SUCCESSFUL WILL BE RECEIVING INPUT FROM THE EXPERIENCE OF ICANN.
WE'RE NOT JUST TRYING TO SIT AROUND THE TABLE, TO PARTICIPATE WITH THE DIFFERENT STAKEHOLDERS OF THE SOCIETY. WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS CREATE AN ORGANIZED WAY WITH ACCOUNTABILITY PROCEDURES, GUARANTEEING TRANSPARENCY AND ACCOUNTABILITY FOR THE END USERS, INTERMEDIATE USERS. THIS IS NOW DOUBT THE BEST LESSON WE CAN LEARN FROM THE ICANN AND THE WORKING GROUP OF THE WGIG.
>>HILARY BOWKER: I'M GOING TO COME TO YOU NOW, I'M GOING TO COME TO YOU AGAIN LATER, BECAUSE YOU'RE THE SOLE, REALLY, REPRESENTATIVE OF CIVIL SOCIETY, OR UNCIVIL SOCIETY, PERHAPS IN THIS CASE.
AND IT'S BEEN VERY POLITE OUR DISCUSSION SO FAR TODAY. I'M SURE THERE WILL BE SPARKS LATER ON, BUT PLEASE, NO FOREST FIRES.
WHAT I WOULD ASK YOU IS, WITH ALL OF THE DEBATE THAT'S GOING ON BETWEEN GOVERNMENTS AND ICANN AND PRIVATE SECTOR, DO YOU EVER FEAR THAT THE VOICE OF THE USER IS LOST?
>>VITTORIO BERTOLA: WELL, ABSOLUTELY. I THINK -- YOU KNOW N THE '90S WE HAD THIS VERY STRONG USER COMMUNITY THAT ACTUALLY CONTRIBUTED TO SHAPE THE INTERNET TO MAKE IT WHAT WE HAVE TODAY. IT ACTUALLY CREATED MANY OF THE APPLICATIONS WE USE TODAY STARTING FROM THE WORLD WIDE WEB, WHICH WAS CREATED BY ACTUALLY A USER OF THE INTERNET, BY SOMEONE WHO WAS DEVELOPING THE INTERNET AS A JOB.
AND WHAT I SEE NOW IS THAT THIS IS STARTING TO GET LOST.
I TEND TO SEE SOME LOCAL CONSIDERATION FOR THE GLOBAL PUBLIC INTEREST, ESPECIALLY COMPARED MAYBE TO SOME NATIONAL INTERESTS OR TO THE INTERESTS OF SOME SPECIFIC INDUSTRY SECTORS.
AND THIS HAPPENS AT ICANN SOMETIMES, BUT IT ALSO HAPPENS INSIDE THE ITU, WIPO, IT HAPPENS IN INTERNATIONAL ORGANIZATIONS.
IF I HAD TO MAKE A COUPLE EXAMPLES, I WOULD MENTION WHOIS BECAUSE I THINK MOST OF YOU ARE FAMILIAR WITH THAT ISSUE BUT I WOULD ALSO MENTION WHAT'S HAPPENING WITH DIGITAL COPYRIGHT AND PEER-TO-PEER AND ALL THOSE ISSUES.
SO I THINK THAT THE WSIS IS A GOOD CHANCE AND IT IS REALLY BUILDING CONSENSUS AROUND SOME NEW MECHANISM THAT CAN ACTUALLY BE INCLUSIVE TO EVERYONE. AND WE ACTUALLY FIND A WAY TO WORK FROM THE GLOBAL PUBLIC INTEREST, I'D SAY, SO THE INTEREST OF THE INTERNET AS A WHOLE.
AND I THINK THIS MECHANISM MUST REALLY FORESEE A ROLE FOR CIVIL SOCIETY THAT IS NOT JUST WINDOW DRESSING OR MAYBE JUST IMPLEMENTATION. SO IT'S NOT LIKE THE OTHER STAKEHOLDERS DECIDE WHAT WE HAVE TO DO AND THEN THE CIVIL SOCIETY GETS THEIR HANDS DIRTY AND DOES IT.
THIS IS NOT THE ROLE WE WANT TO PLAY.
IN ICANN, DO WE NEED TO CHANGE SOMETHING AT ICANN? MAYBE NOT MUCH, BUT I THINK WE NEED.
SO I THINK IT'S REALLY TIME TO START THINKING HOW DO WE WANT TO FIT IN THIS MAPPING FOR THE NEXT FIVE OR TEN YEARS.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT WILL COME OUT OF THE WGIG, BUT I JUST KNOW ONE THING. IF, IN THE END, THE VOICE OF THE USERS WILL BE LOST, I THINK THAT THE SPIRIT OF THE INTERNET AS WE KNEW IT TEN YEARS AGO WILL BE LOST.
THANK YOU.
>>HILARY BOWKER: THANK YOU. I'M NOT GOING TO DO THE OBVIOUS THING AND ASK VINT CERF TO ANSWER THAT. I'M GOING TO ASK RAIMUNDO TO COME, BECAUSE A VERY STRONG VOICE OF THE PRIVATE SECTOR AND ALSO AN ICANN BOARD MEMBER.
>>RAIMUNDO BECA: THANK YOU, HILARY.
I APOLOGIZE FOR SPEAKING IN ENGLISH, PERHAPS, BUT MY NOTES ARE IN ENGLISH AND I HAVE TO SPEAK IN A RUSH, AND IN A RUSH IN SPANISH, YOU WOULD NOT UNDERSTAND.
I WAS ASKED TO SPEAK ABOUT THE INTERNET GOVERNANCE FROM THE VIEW -- FROM THE POINT OF VIEW OF THE PRIVATE SECTOR.
IN FACT, I WILL SPEAK ABOUT INTERNET GOVERNANCE FROM A PERSPECTIVE MORE BROADER, EVEN, THAN THE PRIVATE SECTOR.
THE PERSPECTIVE FROM WHICH I'M GOING TO SPEAK IS THE PERSPECTIVE OF WHAT I CALL THE PEOPLE OF THE ORGANIZATION THAT ARE PAYING FOR THE INTERNET, THAT ARE PAYING FOR MAKING THINGS HAPPEN THROUGH INVESTING, FUNDING OR EVEN BUYING.
FROM THIS PERSPECTIVE, I WOULD LIKE TO STATE, IN MY OPINION, AN OUTCOME OF THE STRUCTURE OF ANY INTERNET GOVERNMENT OR GOVERNANCE ORGANIZATIONAL STRUCTURE SHOULD BE BUILT CONSIDERING FIVE KEY ELEMENTS.
I WOULDN'T BE HAPPY IF ANY OF THOSE FIVE KEY ELEMENTS ARE LACKING.
THOSE FIVE KEY ELEMENTS ARE, FIRST, A GLOBAL MULTI-STAKEHOLDER STRUCTURE.
SECOND, SELF-REGULATION. THIRD, REGIONALIZATION. FOURTH, COORDINATION OF REGIONAL CONSTITUENCIES. AND FIFTH, THE EXISTENCE OF REGIONAL POINTS OF CONVERGENCE.
I WOULD LIKE TO ELABORATE EACH OF THEM. BUT SINCE I HAVE NOT GOT TOO MUCH TIME, AT LEAST IN THIS FIRST BIT, I WILL ELABORATE ONLY ON REGIONALIZATION.
I AM SEEING, THESE DAYS, A FALSE DILEMMA IN OUR COMMUNITY AND THE INTERNET COMMUNITY. A FALSE DILEMMA BETWEEN, ON ONE HAND, A GLOBAL APPROACH; ON THE OTHER HAND, A NATIONAL SOVEREIGNTY APPROACH.
IN FACT, IN BETWEEN BOTH, THERE'S ENORMOUS SPACE OF A REGIONAL APPROACH WHICH PROMOTES A LOT OF BALANCING. AND I WILL SPEAK FROM THE EXAMPLE OF THE ADDRESSING.
IN THE ADDRESSING, WE KNOW VERY WELL THAT A CENTRAL ALLOCATION OF THE ADDRESSING SPACE, AS A CONSEQUENCE, AS A CONSEQUENCE OF THE FRAGMENTATION OF THE SPACE.
ON THE OTHER HAND, IF WE ALLOCATE AT A NATIONAL LEVEL, WE HAVE BAD USERS OF THE ADDRESS SYSTEM WHICH IS SPOILED IN RESERVE AND THINGS LIKE THAT, AND ALSO IN THE NONRELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE FRONTIERS OF THE COMPANIES AND THE FRONTIERS OF THE NATION WHICH ARE NOT THE SAME, AND THE COMPANIES, THEY MAKE THEIR ADDRESSES ACCORDING TO THEIR FRONTIERS.
ALL THAT MEANS THAT YOU HAVE A VERY, VERY HIGH COST OF ROUTING, WHICH IS A VERY HIGH COST OF THE INTERNET, FINALLY, WITH IF YOU HAVE SOLUTIONS WHICH ARE NOT REGIONAL.
AND THAT IS WHAT HAS BEEN MADE NOW. AND WE HAVE NOW FOUR REGIONS, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE AT THE END OF THIS WEEK A FIFTH REGION, AND THAT IS A VERY GOOD SOLUTION.
I AM CONVINCED THAT MANY OF THE PROBLEMS OF THE CCTLD, THE SPACE, WOULD BE SOLVED OR BETTER CONCLUDED IF THE EXISTENCE OR NON-EXISTENCE REGIONAL ORGANIZATION OF THE CCTLD ARE ENFORCED.
>>HILARY BOWKER: THANKS, RAIMUNDO. I'M SURE I'M GOING TO HAVE SOME AUDIENCE RESPONSE ON THAT, BUT I'M GOING TO ASK YOU TO HOLD THE THOUGHT.
WE'LL ASK VINT CERF TO BRING -- WELL, NOT CONCLUDE, BUT SPEAK LAST BUT CERTAINLY NOT LEAST ON THE PANEL.
>>VINTON CERF: LET ME -- FIRST OF ALL, I REALLY APPRECIATE THE COMMENTS THAT HAVE BEEN MADE SO FAR. I FIND THEM THOUGHTFUL AND THOUGHT PROVOKING.
I AM CONCERNED WITH REGARD TO THE WGIG CHARTER THAT IT'S POTENTIALLY QUITE LIMITED IN SOME RESPECTS.
MY CONCERN IS THAT INTERNET GOVERNANCE, IN MY VIEW, IS MUCH BROADER THAN THE LIST OF FUNCTIONS THAT WE HEARD STATED EARLIER.
SO ONE CONCERN I HAVE IS THAT IF THE WGIG DOES NOT ADDRESS A BROAD RANGE OF CONCERNS -- FRAUD, ABUSE, OTHER KINDS OF TROUBLE THAT DERIVE FROM ABUSE OF THE INTERNET -- THAT WE WILL NOT CAPTURE THE FULL RANGE OF ISSUES THAT NEED TO BE DEALT WITH.
SO THAT'S THE FIRST CONCERN.
THE SECOND ONE, JUST TO RESPOND TO RAIMUNDO'S VERY USEFUL OBSERVATION ABOUT REGIONAL STRUCTURE, IS TO ASK WHETHER -- I THINK WE WOULD HAVE TO ASK OURSELVES WHETHER IN EACH CASE OF CONCERN, EACH KIND OF CONCERN, WHETHER REGIONALITY WILL WORK WELL, IN THE CASE OF ASSIGNMENT IT WORKS WELL BECAUSE OF THE NATURE OF THE TASK. IT'S CONCEIVABLE THAT SOME OF THE OTHER TASKS WILL NOT WORK AS WELL. JUST TO GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE, IF WERE YOU TRYING TO SET UP SOME FORM OF E-COMMERCE LEGAL FRAMEWORK, YOU MIGHT FIND IT IMPORTANT TO WORK ON A NATIONAL BASIS AND THEN TO COORDINATE THAT ON A GLOBAL SCALE.
WHETHER THERE WOULD BE A NATURAL REGIONAL RATIONALIZATION OF SUCH A STRUCTURE IS NOT SO CLEAR.
SO WE WOULD HAVE TO TAILOR THE STRUCTURES.
FINALLY, I AM AT LEAST SOMEWHAT CONCERNED THAT WE MIGHT MAKE THE MISTAKE OF THINKING THAT A SINGLE NEWLY CREATED OBJECT, NEWLY CREATED ORGANIZATION, WOULD, IN FACT, BE ABLE TO UNDERTAKE ALL ASPECTS OF THIS BROAD DEFINITION OF INTERNET GOVERNANCE, AND I WOULD SUGGEST THAT'S PROBABLY NOT NECESSARY BECAUSE WHAT WE'VE DISCOVERED IS THAT WE CAN HAVE MANY, MANY BODIES INVOLVED IN VARIOUS ASPECTS OF GOVERNANCE MATTERS AND THAT THEY CAN BE COORDINATED.
THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE HAVE LEARNED FROM THE RIRS AND FROM THE ICANN STRUCTURE ITSELF.
SO I'LL STOP THERE.
>>HILARY BOWKER: THANK YOU.
NOW I'M GOING TO ASK THE PANELISTS IF THEY WANT TO REACT TO EACH OTHER BEFORE I THROW IT TO THE FLOOR, BECAUSE I THINK WE NEED TO GIVE THEM THAT OPPORTUNITY.
MADAM AMBASSADOR, HAVE YOU GOT SOMETHING THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO SAY IN REACTION TO SOME OF THE THINGS YOU HAVE HEARD?
I AM GOING TO GO IN THE SAME ORDER OF SPEAKERS?
I WILL ASK YOU TO DO THIS BRIEFLY, THOUGH, PLEASE.
>>AMBASSADOR DI GIOVAN: THANK YOU.
AS A REACTION TO WHAT WAS SAID, BUT ABOVE ALL AS A REACTION TO WHAT IS PUT FORWARD BEFORE US, IN FACT, INTERNET OFFERS US NEW SPACE.
IT'S -- IT GOES BEYOND GOVERNMENTAL ISSUES.
DIGITAL SPACE PUTS BEFORE US ON HOW TO DEAL WITH IT AND HOW TO REGULATE IT.
SO THAT LEADS US TO FACE TWO CURRENTS.
THE TRADITIONAL ONE, SELF-REGULATION OR BEHAVIORAL CONDUCT, OTHER, BEST PRACTICES, AND ON THE OTHER HAND, THE POSITION OF SOME COUNTRIES THAT BELIEVE THAT THE STATE HAS AN IMPORTANT ROLE TO PLAY IN THIS AND OTHER ISSUES.
AS ALWAYS, THE SOLUTION IS IN WHAT THE FRENCH STATE COUNCIL ESTABLISHED AS THE COREGULATION, THAT IS TO SAY, PRIVATE SECTOR AND PUBLIC SECTOR TOGETHER.
IT IS EASY TO SAY BUT IS VERY DIFFICULT TO FIND THE EQUATION THAT IS ADEQUATE TO GET THAT.
>>HILARY BOWKER: JUST AS A VERY BRIEF ASIDE, GETTING INTERNATIONAL BODIES TO COOPERATE ISN'T SO EASY, EITHER.
MARKUS KUMMER.
THAT WAS PERHAPS A LOADED WAY TO LEAD IN TO YOU.
BUT CERTAINLY ISSUES ABOUT HOW BROAD INTERNET'S GOVERNANCE IS, AND I KNOW YOU HAVEN'T COME UP WITH A DEFINITION YET, BECAUSE YOU'RE WORKING ON IT.
BUT ALSO, I WONDER IF THE CONCEPT OF HOW THE INTERNET IS USED AND HOW THE INTERNET WORKS, IF YOU WILL, IF IT'S NECESSARY TO SEPARATE THOSE.
>>MARCUS KUMMER: I WAS GOING TO REACT TO THAT QUESTION.
WE HAVE NOT COME UP WITH A DEFINITION YET.
BUT BY LOOKING AT THE PUBLIC POLICY ISSUES, WE HAVE IMPLICITLY MOVED TOWARDS A DEFINITION.
AND THE BASIC FINDING IS THAT ALL THE ISSUES ARE ON THE TABLE AND ARE PART OF INTERNET GOVERNANCE.
AND CERTAINLY ISSUES RELATED TO THE USE OF INTERNET FROM PART OF IT.
BUT WE ALSO ATTACH GREAT IMPORTANCE TO DEVELOPMENTAL ASPECTS RELATED TO THE INTERNET GOVERNANCE, WHICH INCLUDE A LOT OF CAPACITY-BUILDING OF DEVELOPING COUNTRIES.
SO THESE ARE DEFINITELY, I THINK, IMPORTANT ASPECTS THAT WILL BE ADDRESSED BY THE GROUP.
AND, AGAIN, WE HOPE ALSO TO GET INPUT.
AND AS I SAID IN MY INTRODUCTORY STATEMENT, ONE OF THE MOST DIFFICULT PARTS OF THE TASK OF THE WGIG WILL BE, INDEED, TO ASSESS WHO DOES WHAT AND WHO SHOULD DO WHAT AND HOW IT SHOULD BE DONE AND HOW THIS COOPERATION SHOULD LOOK LIKE.
THESE ARE ALWAYS EXTREMELY DIFFICULT QUESTIONS.
BUT WE ARE -- I THINK I CAN SAY THAT -- NOT LOOKING AT SETTING UP NEW SUPER-ORGANIZATION, BUT, RATHER, AT LOOKING ON HOW TO IMPROVE COOPERATION, COLLABORATION BETWEEN EXISTING ORGANIZATIONS.

>>HILARY BOWKER: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
PANKAJ AGRAWALA.
>>PANKAJ AGRAWALA: WE ARE FACING A MASSIVE ONSLAUGHT OF DISRUPTIVE TECHNOLOGIES.
I AM INTERESTED IN SEEING WHICH INSTITUTION IS GOING TO SHOW INCUMBENT BEHAVIOR AND WHICH INSTITUTION WILL RESPOND TO THE DISRUPTIVE TECHNOLOGIES AND CHANGE.
>>HILARY BOWKER: SHORT AND POINTED.
SHARIL.
>>SHARIL TARMIZI: THANK YOU, HILARY.
I THINK FOR -- AND LET ME BE CLEAR.
I AM SPEAKING FROM THE MALAYSIAN PERSPECTIVE, NOT WEARING THE GAC HAT.
INTERNET CREATES NEW SPACE AND STRUCTURE.
I THINK THAT MUCH, EVEN AS A GOVERNMENT, WE UNDERSTOOD.
AND THIS IS WHY WE MOVED IN A DIFFERENT WAY AND NOT IN A TRADITIONAL MANNER.
YOU HAVE TO APPRECIATE, FOR EXAMPLE, TELECOMS IN MALAYSIA WAS HEAVILY REGULATED FOR OVER 50 YEARS.
BUT WE ALSO RECOGNIZE, AND WE ARE LEARNING AS WE SEE AND WE TALK TO COLLEAGUES, THAT PEOPLE'S PERSPECTIVES AND DEFINITIONS OF WHAT GOVERNANCE EVEN MEANS CAN DIFFER BASED ON EXPERIENCE, BASED ON HISTORY, BASED ON ECONOMIC SITUATIONS.
BUT ONE THING WE ARE CLEAR ABOUT -- AND I THINK THIS WAS MENTIONED BY MY COLLEAGUE, SOMETHING ABOUT CHANGE -- WE KNOW -- PANKAJ MENTIONED THIS -- WE KNOW WE CAN'T REALLY DO IT THE OLD WAY ANYMORE, BECAUSE IF WE DID, THEN WE WOULD PROBABLY BE IRRELEVANT AND NOT MEETING THE CHALLENGES OF THE INFORMATION SOCIETY GOING FORWARD.
>>HILARY BOWKER: THANK YOU.
AND BEFORE I THROW TO VITTORIO, VITTORIO, JUST TO GIVE YOU A LITTLE AMMO AGAINST RAIMUNDO, I WOULD ARGUE AS AN INTERNET USER THAT I, TOO, PAY.
>>VITTORIO BERTOLA: WELL, TO RESPOND TO -- I THINK I HAVE JUST HEARD FROM MY INDIAN FRIEND.
I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO CLARIFY THIS.
I DON'T THINK THAT THERE IS ANY KIND OF DISRUPTIVE TECHNOLOGY.
I THINK THAT TECHNOLOGY CAN BE USED IN A GOOD OR A BAD WAY.
SO IF THERE ARE PROBLEMS WITH THE WAY TECHNOLOGY AND NEW TECHNOLOGY IS BEING USED, I THINK YOU SHOULD ASK YOURSELF WHY IT'S BEING USED LIKE THAT.
SO IN SOME CASES IT'S PLAIN CRIME AND YOU SEND THE POLICE AND THAT'S FINE.
IN OTHER CASES, LET'S SAY, FOR EXAMPLE, IT'S IP -- I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU WERE REFERRING TO, BUT I HAVE THIS IN MY MIND BECAUSE I HAVE HEARD MANY TIMES FROM GOVERNMENTAL REPRESENTATIVES.
IN OTHER CASES, IT'S JUST BECAUSE PEOPLE, USERS, ACTUALLY, HAVE A NEED FOR SOMETHING THAT IS NOT MET BY THE PRESENT POLICIES.
AND IN THESE CASES, THERE IS NO WAY YOU CAN IMPOSE THEM NOT TO USE NEW TECHNOLOGIES.
YOU CAN MAKE ANY KIND OF INTERNATIONAL ORGANIZATIONS, BUT IN THE END, PEOPLE WILL GO ON USING VOICE OVER IP, PEOPLE WILL GO ON USING PEER-TO-PEER SYSTEMS, PEOPLE WILL DO IT.
AND THE -- THERE ARE GOOD AND BAD THINGS ABOUT THE INTERNET.
BUT YOU NEED TO UNDERSTAND THAT IF YOU WANT TO MANAGE IT.
>>HILARY BOWKER: THANK YOU, VITTORIO.
RAIMUNDO.
.
>>RAIMUNDO BECA: THANK YOU, HILARY.
I WILL USE MY TIME ONLY TO ELABORATE ON ONE OF THE OTHER -- THE POINTS I MENTIONED ABOUT THE POTENTIALLY OF HAVING A SOLID REGIONAL POINT OF COMPETENCE.
AND I WILL SHOW THAT WITH AN EXAMPLE.
WITH -- AFTER LACNIC WAS CREATED, THIS WAS A HELP TO LAUNCH OTHER PROJECTS.
SO NOW AFTER LACNIC, YOU HAVE FREDA, WHICH IS FOR RESEARCH, AND YOU HAVE MANY OTHER PROJECTS THAT ARE COMING.
AND THAT'S VERY IMPORTANT, BECAUSE YOU CAN -- FROM ONE REGIONAL CONSTITUENCY, SOLID, YOU CAN MAKE OTHER REGIONAL CONSTITUENCIES IN OTHER AREAS.

>>HILARY BOWKER: THANK YOU.
ALEJANDRO, I'M SORRY, I PASSED YOU BY EARLIER.

>>ALEJANDRO PISANTY: I WILL LEAVE THE TIME FOR THE SPEAKERS ON THE FLOOR.
>>HILARY BOWKER: I THOUGHT YOU WERE GOING TO SAY SOMETHING.
VINT.
>>VINT CERF: YES, I'M ON.
OKAY.
THANK YOU.
LET'S SEE.
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT IS VERY INTERESTING ABOUT HOW THIS WHOLE WSIS AND WGIG UNFOLDED IS THAT WHEN THE WSIS WAS STARTED, I THINK THERE WERE SOME VERY BROAD OBJECTIVES, THE MILLENNIUM (INAUDIBLE) THAT WAS TO TRY TO INCREASE DEVELOPMENT OF INTERNET (INAUDIBLE) INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY EVERYWHERE.
THIS IS NOT WORKING.
I'M GETTING FEEDBACK.
SO THE -- THAT STARTED OUT AS A REALLY INTERESTING PROPOSITION TO SEE HOW COULD WE ACHIEVE SOME IMPORTANT OBJECTIVES AS A GLOBAL COMMUNITY.
THE INTERNET BECAME A FOCAL POINT IN THE DISCUSSION.
AND EVENTUALLY THAT LED TO THIS WGIG DEBATE AND WHAT IS INTERNET GOVERNANCE AND DO WE NEED TO HAVE IT AND IF WE DO, HOW SHOULD WE DO IT?
I'M BEGINNING TO THINK THAT WE SHOULD STEP BACK FOR A MOMENT AND REMEMBER WHAT OUR REAL GOALS OUR.
OUR REAL GOALS ARE TO FIND WAYS OF TAKING INFORMATION AND COMMUNICATIONS TECHNOLOGIES AND MAKE THEM ACCESSIBLE AND USEFUL AND IMPROVE THE QUALITY OF LIFE FOR EVERYONE IN ECONOMIES.
AND SO IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND THAT IT IS NOT ENOUGH TO SIMPLY PUT TECHNOLOGY IN PLACE SOMEWHERE AND IMAGINE THAT IT WILL MAGICALLY DO ANYTHING.
YOU HAVE TO HAVE TRAINED PEOPLE WHO KNOW HOW TO USE IT.
YOU HAVE TO HAVE INFRASTRUCTURE THAT CAN BE SUPPORTED.
YOU NEED BUSINESS MODELS WHICH, BY THE WAY, CAN INCLUDE GOVERNMENT-RELATED FUNDING.
A BUSINESS MODEL DOES NOT HAVE TO BE STRICTLY PRIVATE SECTOR.
BUT EVERYTHING ULTIMATELY HAS TO BE PAID FOR.
SO I HOPE THAT AS THE WGIG WORKING GROUP PREPARES ITS MATERIAL AND CONVEYS THAT TO THE WORLD SUMMIT ON THE INFORMATION SOCIETY THAT IT IS ABLE TO REMIND THAT BODY OF WHAT ITS REAL GOALS ARE.
AND ITS REAL GOALS ARE NOT SO MUCH TO CREATE A NEW GLOBAL GOVERNANCE APPARATUS, BUT, RATHER, TO FIND WAYS FORWARD TO REALLY HARNESS THE UTILITY OF ICT.

>>HILARY BOWKER: THAT SOUNDED LIKE ME FALLING.
VINT, YOU KIND OF TAKE THE WIND OUT OF OUR SAILS.
BECAUSE IT'S VERY LOFTY.
BUT I'M JUST GOING TO DO A LITTLE STRAW POLL HERE.
BECAUSE I AGREE WITH VINT, I THINK MOST PEOPLE WILL.
BUT LET ME JUST START STIRRING THE POT IN TERMS OF THE DISCUSSION.
CAN YOU RAISE YOUR HANDS IF YOU BELIEVE THAT UNDER THE CURRENT STATUS QUO, IN FACT, WHAT VINT IS TALKING ABOUT IS GOING TO HAPPEN, PLEASE.
IF YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND MY QUESTION, YOU CAN RAISE YOUR HANDS, TOO.
>>VINT CERF: I DON'T UNDERSTAND THE QUESTION.
>>HILARY BOWKER: OKAY.
YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND MY QUESTION.
BASICALLY, THE PRIME GOAL OF WHAT WE SHOULD ALL BE WORKING FOR IS TO USE ICT FOR DEVELOPMENT.
IF I'M CHANGING YOUR WORDS -- BUT TO BROADEN ACCESS TO EXPAND THE INTERNET SO MORE PEOPLE IN MORE PLACES CAN USE IT MORE OF THE TIME.
>>VINT CERF: YEAH, I THINK SHOULD YOU DO THAT.
>>HILARY BOWKER: YEAH.
DO YOU THINK THAT WILL HAPPEN WITH THIS CURRENT STATUS QUO AS THINGS ARE?
YES?
>>VINT CERF: I DON'T KNOW.
>>HILARY BOWKER: STATUS QUO MEANS THE WAY IT IS.
THE WAY THE SITUATION IS NOW, WITH WHO'S RUNNING WHAT, DO YOU BELIEVE --
>>VINT CERF: HILARY, I'M SORRY.
I REALLY HAVE TO INTERRUPT.
BECAUSE YOU'RE -- THAT'S AN AMBIGUOUS QUESTION.
>>HILARY BOWKER: AH.
>>VINT CERF: THE PROBLEM WITH THE WAY THINGS ARE MIGHT HAVE BEEN -- I INTERPRETED THAT TO MEAN THE WAY WE ARE PROCEEDING WITH WGIG AND WSIS.
WHAT YOU MIGHT HAVE MEANT IS THE WAY THE CURRENT INTERNET IS OPERATED, THE WAY IN WHICH WHATEVER GOVERNANCE IS NEEDED IS SUPPLIED.
IS THAT WHAT YOU MEAN?
>>HILARY BOWKER: YES.
>>VINT CERF: WELL, OKAY.
SO THIS ONE -- LET ME MAKE A REALLY SIMPLE CLARIFICATION.
IF YOU RAISE YOUR HAND, YOU'RE AGREEING WITH THE ENGINEERS WHO SAY, ROUGHLY, IF IT ISN'T BROKEN, DON'T FIX IT.
>>HILARY BOWKER: YOU'RE NOT.
THAT'S NOT WHAT I MEANT.
WHAT I MEAN IS, WILL WE EXPAND AND GIVE ACCESS ENOUGH IF THE CURRENT METHODS OF RUNNING THE INTERNET CONTINUE?
IS IT ENOUGH?
YES OR NO?
OH, I HAVE FEWER HANDS THIS TIME.
>> HILARY, YES OR NO?
>>HILARY BOWKER: YES?
I THINK I'M CONFUSING EVERYBODY.
THOSE WHO DISAGREE, NO?
VERY FEW.
OKAY.
WHAT I'M TRYING TO GET ACROSS -- YOU KNOW SOMETHING, HERE'S A MAN WHO'S GOING TO CLARIFY WHAT I'M TRYING TO SAY, OR PERHAPS NOT.
JOHN.
CAN YOU IDENTIFY YOURSELF.
I KNOW EVERYBODY KNOWS YOU.
>>JOHN KLENSIN: I CAN IDENTIFY MYSELF, BUT THIS WON'T TALK TO ME.
>>HILARY BOWKER: I THINK YOU NEED TO TURN IT ON.
>>VINT CERF: HOW MANY ENGINEERS DOES IT TAKE TO TURN ON A MICROPHONE?
(LAUGHTER.)
>>JOHN KLENSIN: YES, I'M JOHN KLENSIN.
THERE ARE MANY FUNDAMENTAL INTERACTIONS IN THE QUESTION YOU ARE TRYING TO ASK AND I THINK IT BECOMES IMPOSSIBLE.
THERE ARE WAYS IN WHICH SOME OF US WHO HAVE BEEN VERY CONCERNED ABOUT DEVELOPING AND SPREADING THE INTERNET FOR MANY YEARS, AND WITH SOME COLLEAGUES IN OTHER COUNTRIES LOOK AT PIECES OF THIS ONGOING PROCESS AND SAY -- AND SAY, TO SOME EXTENT, THIS PROCESS IS AN OBSTACLE TO DEVELOPMENT AND EXPANSION OF THE INTERNET.
WHEN WE RUN VERY EXPENSIVE PROCESSES WHICH INVOLVE MEETING AFTER MEETING AFTER MEETING AND PREPARATION MEETINGS FOR PREPARATION MEETINGS FOR PREPARATION MEETINGS FOR MEETINGS, THAT'S A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF RESOURCE THAT ISN'T GOING INTO DEVELOPMENT, BOTH IN TERMS OF HUMAN TIME AND IN TERMS OF DOLLARS.
IT MAY VERY WELL BE THAT THE COMMUNITY HAS TO WORK THROUGH THAT.
BUT IT'S NOT, FROM THE STANDPOINT OF INTERNET DEPLOYMENT, A PRODUCTIVE PROCESS.
>>HILARY BOWKER: CAN I JUST ASK YOU ONE QUESTION?
NO, NO, DON'T GO AWAY.
BECAUSE I WANT YOU TO CONTINUE.
BUT ISN'T THAT ESSENTIAL, IN FACT, TO EXPAND ACCESS TO THE PROCESS, THOSE MEETINGS?
>>JOHN KLENSIN: IF YOU THINK THE RESULT OF THE PROCESS IS MEETINGS, THEN, YES, IT'S ESSENTIAL TO THE PROCESS OF EXPANDING ACCESS TO THOSE MEETINGS.
I THINK THE PROCESS IS BITS IN SMALL VILLAGES.
AND I DON'T AGREE THAT THE PRESENT SITUATION WE'RE IN IS AN EFFICIENT WAY TO DO THAT.
BUT AT THE SAME TIME, I DON'T THINK MORE OF WHAT WE'RE DOING IN TERMS OF MEETINGS AND PROCESS AND ORGANIZATIONS IS A MORE EFFECTIVE WAY OF DOING THAT THAN WHERE WE ARE.
I THINK WE REALLY NEED TO TAKE A LOOK AT THIS AND SAY HOW IS WSIS REALLY HELPING THE DEVELOPMENT PROCESS?
HOW ARE MORE MEETINGS, MORE ORGANIZATIONS, MORE STRUCTURES HELPING THE DEVELOPMENT PROCESS?
AND HOW CAN WE CONVERT THAT HUGE AMOUNT OF VERY POSITIVE ENERGY INTO THE DEVELOPMENT PROCESS RATHER THAN TALKING ABOUT GETTING TO DEVELOPING A DEVELOPMENT PROCESS.
>>HILARY BOWKER: BRAVO.

(APPLAUSE.)
>>HILARY BOWKER: HE'S GOING TO CONTINUE FROM THE FLOOR FOR A WHILE AND THEN I WILL GET RESPONSE FROM THE PANEL.
>>RAUL ECHEBERRIA: I WOULD LIKE TO COME BACK TO YOUR QUESTION.
AS -- THE QUESTION YOU MADE TO THE PUBLIC, HILARY.
>>INTERPRETER: I AM SORRY, BUT THERE'S A PROBLEM WITH THE MICROPHONE, THE ROOM MICROPHONE.
WE CANNOT LISTEN TO THE QUESTION.
>>RAUL ECHEBERRIA:
JUST SPEAKING ABOUT ICANN, THAT'S WHY -- YOU'RE DOING WHAT YOU'RE USING INTERNET GOVERNANCE IS THE CURRENT STRUCTURE OF ICANN ADEQUATE FOR THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE INTERNET, THE CURRENT STRUCTURE, THE RESPONSIBILITY, NO.
BUT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE MORE WIDE CONCEPT OF INTERNET GOVERNANCE, THE -- THEN THE ANSWER WOULD BE YES, BECAUSE THERE ARE NO ADEQUATE MECHANISM FOR GOVERNANCE IN THE CASE, FOR INSTANCE, OF COST OF INTERCONNECTION OR THE INTERNET ACCESS.
THERE ARE NO USEFUL REGULATIONS THAT WILL ALLOW COUNTRIES TO SOLVE THESE PROBLEMS.
WE ARE STILL HAVING PROBLEMS WITH THE HANDLING OF CONTENTS OR THE INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY RULES.
THERE ARE NOT THE ADEQUATE ONES FOR DEVELOPING COUNTRIES.
SO IN THAT CASE, IF THE QUESTION IS THAT ONE, MY RESPONSE WOULD BE, NO, WE ARE NOT GOING TO MOVE VERY FAR AHEAD IF WE MAINTAIN THE CURRENT SITUATION.
>>THE INTERPRETER: SORRY ABOUT THE TRANSLATION.
THERE'S A PROBLEM WITH THE MICROPHONE.

>>MIGUEL ALCAINE: I COULD EASILY SUPPORT THE COMMENTS MADE BY THE TWO PREVIOUS SPEAKERS.
BUT I'D LIKE TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE FOLLOWING OPPORTUNITY.
I AGREE TO WHAT THE TWO PREVIOUS SPEAKERS HAVE SAID, BUT I JUST WANT TO HIGHLIGHT THE FACT THAT MY COUNTRY, EL SALVADOR, BELIEVES THAT THE WORK GROUP WON'T HAVE ENOUGH TIME TO FINISH -- OR TO PUT AN END TO ALL OF THOSE SUBJECTS THAT ARE ON THE TABLE AND THOSE SUBJECTS THAT HAVEN'T APPEARED YET.
SO ONE OF THE MAIN TASKS OF THE WORK GROUP IS TO OFFER IDEAS ON HOW TO LOOK FORWARD ON THE TASK OF INTERNET GOVERNANCE UNDERSTOOD FROM A BROAD PERSPECTIVE.

>>IZUMI AIZU: THANK YOU.
MY NAME IS IZUMI AIZU.
I WEAR (INAUDIBLE) HAT THIS TIME.
I APPRECIATE WHAT RAIMUNDO POINTED OUT.
ANY SORT OF EXISTING INSTITUTION CHARGED WITH INTERNET GOVERNANCE SHOULD OPERATE AROUND.
I TOOK ESPECIALLY THE FIRST TWO ONES, TWO PRINCIPLES, A GLOBAL, MULTISTAKEHOLDER STRUCTURE, AND SELF-REGULATION.
WITH THE BACKDROP OF BEING AN INSIDE ICANN MEETINGS, ALTHOUGH THE LARGER, BROADER INTERNET GOVERNANCE IS ON THE TABLE, I THINK WE SHOULD NOT FORGET ABOUT THE REAL CORE ISSUES OF THE INTERNET GOVERNANCE DEBATE IN THE WGIG, WHICH ARE THE TRUE INTERNATIONALIZATION.
THAT'S ONE THING.
AND HOW -- WHAT KIND OF BALANCE OF THE MULTISTAKEHOLDER APPROACH SHOULD BE IN PLACE.
WITH THAT, IF THE CURRENT ICANN, FOR EXAMPLE, IS ON THE RIGHT TRACK FOR THE TRUE INTERNATIONALIZATION, INCLUDING, PERHAPS NOT LIMITED TO, THE ROOT ZONE FILE MANAGEMENT.
THAT'S ONE OF THE HEART OF THE MATTERS, THAT SOME PEOPLE DON'T LIKE A GOVERNMENT TO HAVE THE FINAL SAY.
THE OTHER PEOPLE SAY, BUT THAT IS THE STATUS QUO.
IF WE CHANGE IN THE WRONG WAY, IT WILL CREATE A PROBLEM FOR THE STABILITY.
DO WE HAVE THE AGREED SOLUTION AND CONSENSUS?
THAT'S THE FOCUS WE SHOULD REALLY THINK ABOUT.
AND ALSO, AS -- MAYBE MY AT-LARGE HAT, I MAY SAY, IS THE CURRENT BALANCE OF THE DECISION-MAKING WITHIN ICANN BY ALL THE STAKEHOLDER THE RIGHT ONE OR NOT?
FROM THE CIVIL SOCIETY AND THE USERS' VIEWPOINT, BEING AN ADVISORY, I DON'T FEEL SO.
AND I'D LIKE TO HEAR YOUR COMMENTS FROM THE PANEL.
THANK YOU.
>>HILARY BOWKER: OKAY.
I'M BRIEFLY GOING TO ASK -- JUST -- I'M GOING TO ASK YOU TO STAND THERE JUST FOR A SECOND, BECAUSE I AM GOING TO ASK THE PANEL NOW BRIEFLY FOR COMMENTS WHERE WE ARE IN THIS DISCUSSION.
AND I'LL START WITH YOU, VITTORIO.
AND I WILL ASK TO YOU KEEP THEM BRIEF SO THAT WE CAN GET BACK TO THE FLOOR.
IF YOU DON'T HAVE ANYTHING TO SAY, THAT'S OKAY, TOO.

>>RAIMUNDO BECA: I ONLY HAVE ONE OF THE POINTS, ON SELF-REGULATION.
MY OWN EXPERIENCE, I COME FROM THE TELECOMMUNICATIONS SECTOR.
AND I WAS A VERY HEAVILY REGULATED COMPANY.
AND I AM CONVINCED THAT THE BEST REGULATION IS SELF-REGULATION.
IN THIS DAY, SELF-REGULATION MEANS, IN MY OPINION, IN MY EXPERIENCE, BOTTOM-UP DEVELOPMENT OF POLICIES, AND RELATION TO CONTRACTUAL RELATIONSHIPS AND SETTLEMENT OF DISPUTES.
AND THAT HAS BEEN TO BE MADE ALL AROUND THE WORLD.
SOME POLICIES ARE LOCAL, SOME POLICIES ARE REGIONAL AND SOME POLICIES ARE GLOBAL.
SO THAT'S WHY YOU NEED ALL KINDS OF CONSTITUENCIES, AT THE LOCAL LEVEL, AT THE REGIONAL, AND AT THE GLOBAL LEVEL, TO HAVE THEM ADOPTED, ADOPTED IN THE BOTTOM-UP PROCEDURE, AND THEN ENDORSED, BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE -- WE HAVE NOTHING IF WE HAVE VERY GOOD GLOBAL POLICIES WHICH ARE NOT ENDORSED BY THE OPERATORS.
THANKS.
>>HILARY BOWKER: SHARIL.
>>SHARIL TARMIZI: I WOULD LIKE TO RESPOND TO WHAT VINT HAD SAID, AND ALSO JOHN KLENSIN EARLIER.
AND SOMETIMES I FEEL PERSONALLY THAT PEOPLE SOMETIMES ARE LOSING SIGHT OF WHAT THE INTENTION OF THE MILLENNIUM DEVELOPMENT GOAL IN THE WSIS.
AND IT IS REALLY THE USE OF ICT FOR DEVELOPMENT.
NOW, COMING FROM A DEVELOPING COUNTRY, THE BIGGEST PROBLEM IN THE FIRST PERSPECTIVE IS TO GET CONNECTED.
IF YOU ARE NOT CONNECTED, WHAT ARE WE TALKING ABOUT IN TERMS OF GOVERNANCE?
NOW, THIS IS WHERE, FOR EXAMPLE, IN MALAYSIA, THE FIRST PRIORITY WAS TO PROVIDE UNIVERSAL SERVICE.
GET THE PEOPLE CONNECTED.
ONCE THEY ARE CONNECTED, YOU EVOLVE, YOU MOVE ON TO THE NEXT LEVEL.
THEN YOU TALK ABOUT ISSUES OF GOVERNANCE, YOU TALK ABOUT ISSUES OF FURTHER DEVELOPMENT.
BUT THE POINT I'M TRYING TO MAKE HERE IS THAT EACH OF US HAVE DIFFERENT LEVELS OF DEVELOPMENT.
THERE IS NO ONE SIZE FITS ALL.
THERE'S A CONSTRUCT, THERE'S A FRAMEWORK THAT YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT.
BUT THERE ARE CERTAIN PRIORITIES.
AND PERHAPS IT'S UP TO EACH ONE OF US TO IDENTIFY THOSE PRIORITIES.

>>MARKUS KUMMER: MAYBE A BRIEF COMMENT.
THE AMBASSADOR OF EL SALVADOR POINTED OUT THAT THE WORKING GROUP ON INTERNET GOVERNANCE WILL NOT HAVE ENOUGH TIME TO SETTLE ALL THE ISSUES FOR GOOD, AND THAT'S WHY --
>>HILARY BOWKER: CAN I JUST INTERRUPT YOU ONE MINUTE?
IT'S NOT UP TO YOU TO SETTLE IT.
ISN'T IT UP TO YOU TO MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS?
>>MARKUS KUMMER: WELL, EXACTLY.
BUT I MEAN IN THE REPORT TO COME TO FINAL CONCLUSIONS ON HOW TO SETTLE THIS AND THAT.
AND THEN THE SUMMIT WOULD SETTLE ALL THE ISSUES ONCE AND FOR ALL.
AND THAT'S WHY WE SHOULD LOOK MAYBE BEYOND THE PHASE OF TUNIS.
AND I THINK THAT'S WHERE WE ARE VERY INFORMALLY BRAINSTORMING, LOOKING AT HOW WE SHOULD MOVE ON.
BUT I'M SURE THAT WOLFGANG KLEINWACHTER, WHO IS STANDING THERE, WHO IS AN EMINENT MEMBER WILL ALSO SAY SOMETHING.
>>AMBASSADOR DI GIOVAN: I WANT TO MENTION SOMETHING AS REGARDS THE PROCESS AND THE AMOUNT OF (INAUDIBLE).
I HAVE BEEN LISTENING TO DIFFERENT CRITICS, I HAVE BEEN LISTENING TO CERTAIN SKEPTIC COMMENTS AS REGARDS THE WASTE OF TIME AND THE MONEY SPENT IN MEETINGS.
BUT I WANT TO SUPPORT WHAT AMBASSADOR KUMMER, THE PROCESS IS VERY IMPORTANT.
YOU SHOULD REMEMBER THAT IN 1999, THE CIVIL SOCIETY WAS DEMONSTRATING THE STREETS OF SEATTLE, AND THEY MADE THE MEETING OF THE WORLD TRADE ORGANIZATION, THEY TRANSFORMED IT INTO A FAILURE.
IN THIS DEBATE, THE CIVIL SOCIETY IS PARTICIPATING AS I HAVE NEVER SEEN IT IN THE PAST IN THE HISTORY OF THE ORGANIZATIONS OF THE UNITED NATIONS.
I WANT TO HIGHLIGHT AS WELL AND PAY HOMAGE TO THE SWISS GOVERNMENT, BECAUSE IN THE FIRST STAGE OF THE SUMMIT, THE SWISS GOVERNMENT OFFERED A LOT OF FACILITIES, A LOT OF HUMAN RESOURCES, A LOT OF FINANCIAL RESOURCES TO ENSURE WIDE PARTICIPATION OF THE CIVIL SOCIETY IN THIS WORLD SUMMIT.
SO YOU SHOULDN'T BE IMPATIENT.
YOU SHOULD WAIT, YOU SHOULD WAIT AND MAKE POSITIVE CONTRIBUTIONS, ALL THE REGIONS, ALL THE DIFFERENT COUNTRIES, THROUGH FIVE DIFFERENT REPRESENTATIVES ARE REPRESENTING THE SPECIAL GROUP OF INTERNET GOVERNANCE.
ALL OF YOU, YOU HAVE THE POSSIBILITY TO CHANNEL, TO FUEL YOUR POSITIVE CONTRIBUTIONS.
THE DOCUMENTS ARE POSTED ON THE INTERNET.
SO DON'T DESPAIR, AND TAKE YOUR TIME.

>>PANKAJ AGRAWALA: I THINK THAT THERE ARE BIG ISSUES AND SMALL ISSUES, AND WHETHER IT IS ROOT ZONE FILE, OTHER THINGS, SOME SAY IT IS BIG; SOME SAY IT IS SMALL.
IT IS THE PERSPECTIVE OF THE PERSON WHERE HE STANDS.
AND THERE ARE INDIVIDUAL PERSPECTIVES.
BUT THE BIG CONCERN TODAY IS THAT THERE IS -- THERE ARE LOTS OF MISPERCEPTIONS, MISCONCEPTIONS.
AND BASED ON THAT, IF SOME DECISION IS TAKEN, IT MIGHT BE VERY HARMFUL FOR ALL OF US.
SO THERE IS A TIME THAT MORE INFORMATION ABOUT WHATEVER IS HAPPENING AND HOW IT IS HAPPENING SHOULD GET INTO THE SYSTEM SO THAT AN INFORMED DECISION IS TAKEN NOW THAT WE ARE SITTING ON A PLATFORM OF WSIS OR WHATEVER WE HAVE IN FRONT OF US AS A DECISION-MAKING BODY WHICH HAS BEEN CHARGED TO GIVE A DECISION.

>>HILARY BOWKER: VINT.
>>VINT CERF: WELL, I'M -- TAKE THIS OFF -- I'M SITTING HERE THINKING WE SHOULD AVOID A RUSH TO JUDGMENT, TO DECISION, BECAUSE THIS IS A REALLY COMPLEX TOPIC.
I AM CONSTANTLY REMINDED THAT THE ATTEMPTS THAT ICANN MAKES TO BUILD CONTRACTS WITH REGISTRARS AND REGISTRIES HAVE UNEXPECTED RESULTS AS THE MARKETPLACE ADAPTS TO WHATEVER RULES WE TRY TO PUT INTO PLACE.
SO MY SUGGESTION HERE IS THAT WE WOULD BE BETTER SERVED IF WE CONCENTRATE ON PRINCIPLES GOALS, WHICH RAIMUNDO SUGGESTS, AND OTHERS HAVE; SECOND, THAT WE ENSURE THAT THERE IS A PLACE FOR CONTINUED DISCUSSION ABOUT AND OBSERVATION OF THE VARIOUS MECHANISMS OF GOVERNANCE WHICH ALREADY EXIST; AND, THIRD, THAT WE SHOULD PAY ATTENTION TO THOSE AREAS WHICH ARE NOT ADEQUATELY ATTENDED TO AND ASK OURSELVES WHAT CAN BE DONE, WHERE CAN IT BE DONE, AND HOW CAN IT BE DONE.

>>HILARY BOWKER: THANK YOU, VINT.
SORRY TO HAVE KEPT YOU WAITING.
>>WOLFGANG KLEINWÄCHTER: OKAY.
THANK YOU.
MY NAME IS WOLFGANG KLEINWACHTER.
I AM FROM THE UNIVERSITY OF AARHUS.
KOFI ANNAN URGED THE MEMBERS TO BE AS CREATIVE AS -- THIS IS GERMINATING INTO NEW TERRITORY.
WE HAVE TO CREATE SOMETHING WHICH IS NOT YET EXISTENT.
AND SO FAR, WE CANNOT USE EXISTING MODELS AND TO PUSH ALL THESE COMPLEX ISSUES UNDER AN UMBRELLA WHICH IS ALREADY EXISTING.
WE HAVE TO GO BEYOND THE HORIZON AND DISCOVER SOMETHING WHICH IS NEW.
THIS CAN ONLY BE BOTTOM-UP.
THIS IS LEARN BY DOING AND WE HAVE TO FIND OUT WHAT WILL WORK.
IF THE INTERNET IS A NETWORK OF NETWORKS, THEN, FOR ME, INTERNET GOVERNANCE IS A MECHANISM OF MECHANISMS.
SO THAT MEANS WE HAVE A LONG LIST OF DIFFERENT SUBJECTS.
WE HAVE A LIST OF 50 AND MORE IN THE GROUP.
AND EACH SUBJECT HAS A KNOWN GOVERNANCE MECHANISM.
AND THE CHALLENGE IS, YOU KNOW, HOW TO LINK THESE DIFFERENT MECHANISMS TOGETHER THAT ALL THIS CAN WORK IN CONCEPT TO THE BENEFIT OF THE USERS OF THE INTERNET.
THAT MEANS WHAT WE NEED IS SOMETHING LIKE A TCP/IP PROTOCOL TO BRING ALL THESE MECHANISMS TOGETHER.
AND I SEE THAT IN A WAY, THAT WE CAN HAVE A SYSTEM, LET'S SAY, OF COMMUNICATION AND CONSULTATION AND COOPERATION.
THAT MEANS EVERYBODY HAS TO KNOW WHAT THE OTHER MECHANISM IS DOING.
THAT MEANS COMMUNICATION, TO BE INFORMED.
IF COMMUNICATION LEADS TO SOME OVERLAPPING, THEN YOU HAVE TO HAVE A SYSTEM OF COORDINATION.
AND IF THE COORDINATION LEADS TO SOME CONFLICTS OR SOME OTHER PROBLEMS, THEN YOU NEED A FORMALIZED COOPERATION.
BUT IF IT STARTS BOTTOM-UP, THEN THERE IS NO NEED TO REGULATE EVERYTHING, BECAUSE IF COMMUNICATION REGULATES ALREADY THE ISSUE, THEN THERE IS NO NEED FOR AN ARRANGEMENT.
BUT THIS HAS TO BE TESTED OUT IN A PROCESS, AND WE HAVE TO LEARN IT.
BUT NOT -- THE OTHER QUESTION IS, YOU KNOW, IF WE HAVE THIS MECHANISM OF MECHANISMS, WOULD IT MAKE SENSE TO HAVE ELSEWHERE IN THE SKY AN ORGANIZATION OR A GROUP WHICH HAS TO OVERVIEW ABOUT THE TOTALITY OF THE PROBLEMS?
YOU KNOW, COULD SOMETHING LIKE A UNITED NATIONS INTERNET GOVERNANCE COMMUNICATION GROUP, YOU KNOW, SERVE THIS FUNCTION, YOU KNOW, TO WRITE AN ANNUAL REPORT AND, YOU KNOW, TO IDENTIFY, YOU KNOW, WHAT THE ISSUES ARE AND THEN TO PUT THE FINGER ON THE SPECIFIC MECHANISMS WHEN THEY HAVE DISCOVERED THAT SOMETHING GOES WRONG, BUT LEAVE THE DECISION-MAKING CAPACITY AND THE EDGES WHERE THE USERS AND PROVIDERS ARE INVOLVED.
BUT TO HAVE A WORKSHOP ELSEWHERE IN THE SKY WHICH HAS TO OVERVIEW ABOUT EVERYTHING COULD BE A USEFUL INSTRUMENT MOVING FORWARD AND TO LEARN MORE.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
>>MARTIN ABOITIZ: MARTIN ABOITIZ A FROM INTERMEDIA, PRIVATE SECTOR IN ARGENTINA.
HAVING SEEN THE PROCESS FROM THE OUTSIDE AND TAKING SERVICES FROM THE ICANN SUCH AS NAME AND NUMBER REGISTRATION, AND THAT PROCESS HAS WORKED VERY WELL FOR US, AND I SEE ICANN AS HAVING SUCCEEDED IN THAT SMALL OBJECTIVE, I WONDER IF THE DEFINITION OF ICANN IS NOT TOO SMALL IN ASSIGNED NAMES AND NUMBERS.
AND WE ARE DISCUSSING THINGS THAT ARE BEYOND THAT, THE MANDATE. AND SHOULDN'T WE LOOK AT THE MANDATE OF THE ICANN IN THIS SENSE?
>>HILARY BOWKER:ALEJANDRO WANTS A QUICK RESPONSE TO THAT BEFORE WE GO ON.
>>ALEJANDRO PISANTY: I BELIEVE, I HAVE TO THANK YOUR KIND WORDS. THANK YOU FOR THE COMPLIMENT. BUT ALSO, I HAVE TO FRUSTRATE YOU A LITTLE BIT. I HAVE TO ADD A PINCH OF FRUSTRATION. IN ICANN, WE'VE BEEN MAKING AN INCREDIBLE EFFORT TO LIMIT THE SCOPE OF OUR ORGANIZATION JUST TO THE TASKS OF COORDINATION OF THE SYSTEM AS REGARDS DOMAIN NAMES PRACTICAL PARAMETERS.
I THINK THE EXTENSION OF MECHANISMS SUCH AS ICANN MECHANISM, ET CETERA, OR EVEN THE PEOPLE WITHIN ICANN OR PEOPLE IN OTHER SUBJECTS COULD ACT EFFICIENTLY. SO I DON'T THINK IT'S A GOOD IDEA TO ENLARGE THE MANDATE OF ICANN.
>>HILARY BOWKER: YES.
>>MARIO LUIS TEZA: I COME FROM BRAZIL, THE MANAGEMENT COMMITTEE FROM BRAZIL.
I WANT TO ASK A QUESTION. I'VE BEEN PARTICIPATING IN AN ELECTION. I REPRESENT NGOS AT THE LEVEL OF THE MANAGEMENT COMMITTEE.
I WAS AT PEACE WITH THE INITIAL IDEA OF THE AMBASSADOR OF ARGENTINA WAS TO REACH AN AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE SYLVIA SOCIETY AND GOVERNMENTS. BUT MY FIRST CONCERN IN WORKING WITH THE MANAGEMENT COMMITTEE IN BRAZIL IS FIRST WE DON'T HAVE PEOPLE LIKE VINT, JON OR OTHERS, PIONEERS FROM THE INTERNET.
BUT AS TIME GOES BY, THE DISCUSSION AT THE LEVEL OF THE UNITED NATIONS HAS BEEN DEVELOPED.
I'M VERY SCARED, BECAUSE I DO NOT BELIEVE IN DEMOCRACY IN THE UNITED NATIONS. THE UNITED NATIONS NOW IS FULFILLING A ROLE, A VERY POWERFUL ROLE IN, WELL, FRAMEWORK. I RECOGNIZE IT. BUT I WILL FEEL BETTER IF I HAVE -- WE COULD USE THE PROCEDURES USED BY ICANN. ALL OF US WOULD HAVE PROBLEMS, BUT I THINK THAT INTERNET GOVERNANCE SHOULD NOT BE PUT IN THE HANDS OF THE UNITED NATIONS.
WE HAVE TO DEEPEN THE DEMOCRATIC PRACTICES OF ICANN. WE HAVE TO MAKE THEM POPULAR, MORE POPULAR, MORE DEMOCRATIC, MORE AVAILABLE. BECAUSE IF WE HAVE A DEMOCRACY TODAY, IT'S BECAUSE WE HAVE PIONEERS HERE. WE HAVE CLEAR TECHNICAL NETWORKS OR OTHER TYPE OF NETWORKS.
SO I DON'T THINK THAT IT'S POSSIBLE IN THE SHORT TERM THAT THE U.N. ORGANIZATION COULD DO BETTER THAN ICANN. I DO NOT BELIEVE IT.
SO I THINK THE BRAZILIAN EXPERIENCE IS VERY INTERESTING. IN BRAZIL WE HAVE A MANAGEMENT COMMITTEE. MOST COUNTRIES DO NOT HAVE THIS COMMITTEE. IN THIS COMMITTEE, THE CIVIL SOCIETY IS A MAJORITY. THE GOVERNMENT IS NOT IN A LEADERSHIP POSITION. WE'RE NOT PRESENTING OUR ACCOUNTS TO THE GOVERNMENT. THAT'S NOT THE CASE. WE'RE WORKING TOGETHER PEACEFULLY, AND A CIVIL SOCIETY HAS A MAJORITY, AND I THINK THIS IS A GOOD EXAMPLE WORLDWIDE.
>>HILARY BOWKER: ROBERTO, BEFORE I GIVE YOU THE MIKE, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO WRAP VERY SOON BECAUSE WE STARTED LATE AND CAN'T FINISH TOO LATE. BUT ONE THING. DESPITE MY MANGLED INTERPRETATION OF VINT'S WORD AND MY ATTEMPT TO GET A LITTLE FIRE GOING HERE, IT'S BEEN A REALLY CIVILIZED DEBATE AND I JUST HAVE ONE QUERY, SINCE WE'RE GETTING NEAR THE END.
IS THERE ANYBODY WHO HAS ANYTHING TO SAY THAT'S REALLY CONTROVERSIAL? OR ARE WE JUST GOING TO VERY CIVIL.
BECAUSE I KNOW THERE ARE ISSUES THAT ARE HOVERING -- OR PERHAPS NOT HOVERING, BUT BURBLING BELOW THE SURFACE AND IT'S INTERESTING THAT NONE OF THEM HAVE COME UP.
SO DO WE HAVE ANYBODY WHO WANTS TO SAY SOMETHING CONTROVERSIAL? I CAN DO THIS AT THE END BECAUSE IF A FOREST FIRE BREAKS OUT, IT DOESN'T MATTER. WE HAVE TO STOP THE SHOP.
YES? NO?
AMONG THE PANELISTS?
YES, WE HAVE SOMEONE THERE. MARILYN YOU HAVE TO COME UP TO THE MIKE.
MARILYN, THE AMBASSADOR HAS TO LEAVE SO HOLD THE THOUGHT FOR LEAVE BECAUSE SHE HAS ANOTHER SESSION.
>>AMBASSADOR ILEANA DI GIOVAN: THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I HAVE TO LEAVE NOW. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR ALL YOUR COMMENTS
(APPLAUSE.)
>>HILARY BOWKER: THE AMBASSADOR HAS ANOTHER EVENT IN ANOTHER HOTEL. THANK YOU FOR SAYING SO LONG.
>>MARILYN CADE:I DON'T KNOW I SHOULD BE INTRODUCING A CONTROVERSIAL SUBJECT WHEN WE'RE SO CLOSE TO CLOSING.
I'M NOT SURE THAT I SHOULD BE INTRODUCING A CONTROVERSIAL SUBJECT WHEN WE'RE SO CLOSE TO CLOSE, AND I GUESS I THOUGHT, IN FACT, WE TOUCHED ON CONTROVERSIAL SUBJECTS EARLIER. PERHAPS THEY WEREN'T AS CLEAR AS THEY NEEDED TO BE. SO PERHAPS I'LL MAKE ONE CLEAR.
AS ONE OF THE MEMBERS OF THE WORKING GROUP, AND MY COLLEAGUES MAY HAVE COMMENTS TO MAKE AS WELL, I'LL JUST MAKE AN OBSERVATION ABOUT WHAT I'M OAK AS I WORK WITHIN THE WGIG PROCESS IN THE OPEN PART OF THE WGIG PROCESS.
PART OF IT IS OPEN, AND I APPLAUD THAT, AND I THINK IT IS, IN FACT, VERY UNIQUE AND IS A MODEL OF OPENNESS.
AND THEN I GO TO THE WSIS AND I AM ALLOWED, AS A BUSINESS REPRESENTATIVE, TO SIT IN A ROOM IN SOME OF THE MEETINGS, NOT ALL, AND I AM ALLOWED TO MAKE COMMENTS FOR A 15-MINUTE PERIOD AT THE BEGINNING OF THE MEETING AND OCCASIONALLY A 15-MINUTE PERIOD AT THE END OF THE MEETING. AND THIS IS BEING DESCRIBED TO ME AS ADDING MULTI-STAKEHOLDER PARTICIPATION. I HAVE SEEN CONTRIBUTIONS FROM GOVERNMENTS WHO IN THEIR FIRST CONTRIBUTION SAID THE U.N. SHOULD BE GOVERNED BY AN INTERGOVERNMENTAL MULTILATERAL ORGANIZATION. AND I'M THRILLED TO SEE THAT THREE MONTHS LATER THEY HAVE AMENDED THEIR THINKING. IT NOW READS GOVERNED BY AN INTERGOVERNMENTAL, COMMA, MULTILATERAL, COMMA, AND MULTISTAKEHOLDER ORGANIZATION.
I APPRECIATE BEING IN THE ROOM. I THINK TRUE PARTICIPATION LOOKS A LOT MORE LIKE THE PARTICIPATION OF THE CIVIL SOCIETY, THE BUSINESS SECTOR AND GOVERNMENTS THAT I EXPERIENCE AT ICANN THAN IT DOES AT THE WSIS.

>>ROBERTO GAETANO: ROBERTO GAETANO, AT-LARGE ADVISORY COMMITTEE.
I WANT TO MOVE BACK TO THE INITIAL QUESTION. ARE WE MAKING ENOUGH PROGRESS WITH THIS STRUCTURE? THAT WAS YOUR INITIAL QUESTION HILARY. I THINK THAT IT DEPENDS ON THE CONCEPT WE HAVE ABOUT INTERNET GOVERNANCE. SO FAR, WE HAVE CONSIDERED INTERNET GOVERNANCE AS THE MANAGEMENT OF DOMAIN NAMES, ADDRESSES, PROTOCOLS, AND ALL THE REST. I THINK WE'VE MADE A GOOD EFFORT IN THIS SENSE.
I HAVE PARTICIPATED IN THIS PROCESS FOR SEVERAL YEARS, AND IF I LOOK BACKWARDS, THINKING ABOUT THE SITUATION IN THE '90S, I THINK THAT, FOR INSTANCE, AS REGARDS DOMAIN NAMES, THERE IS A REAL COMPETITION. PRICES ARE LOWER, PRICES ARE LOWER. THERE ARE A LOT OF REGISTRANTS, REGISTRARS. SO THIS IS PROGRESS, INDEED.
SAME AS REGARDS ADDRESSES. NOW WE HAVE FIVE REGIONAL ORGANIZATIONS.
SO IF WE ARE TALKING ABOUT CLASSICAL TASKS THAT ICANN HAS FULFILLED IN THE PAST, I THINK WE HAVE MADE A LOT OF PROGRESS. HOWEVER, THERE ARE OTHER QUESTIONS WITHIN THE MANDATE OF ICANN WHERE, CLEARLY, SOMETHING HAS TO BE DONE.
MAYBE IT'S NOT ICANN THAT SHOULD DO THEM. MAYBE IT'S NECESSARY TO HAVE OTHER MECHANISMS, OTHER STRUCTURES, OTHER ORGANIZATIONS.
WHAT SCARES ME HERE IN THIS SITUATION IS THAT IF WE SAY WE HAVEN'T DONE ENOUGH ON THIS ISSUE, WE'RE GOING TO START FROM SCRATCH. LET'S BEGIN AGAIN WITH MEETINGS TO BUILD A NEW STRUCTURE THAT WILL BE IN CHARGE OF EVERYTHING, INCLUDING WHAT ICANN IS DOING. NOT JUST ICANN; OTHER THINGS AS WELL. EVERYTHING RELATED TO INTERNET GOVERNANCE.
IN DOING SO, WE RUN THE RISK OF BREAKING OR ELIMINATING THINGS THAT ARE WORKING SMOOTHLY NOW, AND I'M NOT SURE THAT THIS IS SOMETHING THAT THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY CAN -- THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY CAN RUN THE RISK OF LOSING WHAT WE HAVE ALREADY DONE.

>>HILARY BOWKER: THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I'M GOING TO ASK THE PANELISTS NOW TO GIVE US THEIR CLOSING THOUGHTS VERY QUICKLY.
I KNOW THERE ARE MANY, MANY ISSUES, AND I THINK THE FACT THAT THERE IS TALK -- ALTHOUGH I AGREE WITH JOHN THAT MEETING AFTER MEETING AFTER MEETING IS PROBABLY COUNTERPRODUCTIVE, BUT AT LEAST IF PEOPLE GET TOGETHER AND TALK, THEY DON'T FIGHT, WE HOPE.
BUT I WILL ASK VITTORIO IF YOU COULD SORT OF -- WHAT'S THE MOST IMPORTANT THING TO DO NEXT, I THINK WOULD BE MY QUESTION TO EVERYBODY.

>>VITTORIO BERTOLA: OKAY. COULD YOU JUST RESPOND TO MARILYN, MAYBE, IF YOU NEED SOME SPARKS?
NO, VERY QUICKLY, I JUST WANT TO SAY I BASICALLY AGREE WITH YOU THAT THE FACT THAT THE WSIS PROCESS IS NOT REALLY MULTISTAKEHOLDER AND NOT REALLY PARTICIPATORY FOR THOSE WHO ARE NOT GOVERNMENTS. AT THE SAME TIME, I WANT TO REMARK THAT BECAUSE THIS IS, I THINK, AN OBJECTIVE FOR ICANN, THAT IT'S NOT ENOUGH TO ALLOW SOMEONE IN A ROOM TO ALLOW THEM TO PARTICIPATE AND TO BE DEMOCRATIC AND ACCOUNTABLE. IT'S NOT ENOUGH TO PUBLISH A 70 PAGE DOCUMENTS ON A WEB SITE AND ASK FOR COMMENTS IN ENGLISH TO BE FAIR TO USERS IN CHINA OR INDIA.
SO I THINK ALL OF US STILL HAVE A LOT TO DO IN TERMS OF OPENING UP THE ENTIRE SET OF PROCESSES HERE IN OUR ENTIRE ORGANIZATIONS.
THE OTHER MESSAGE I WANTED TO SAY IS I AGREE THE MOST IMPORTANT RESULT THAT CAN COME OUT OF THE WGIG IS NOT IF I SPECIFIC DECISION ON THIS OR THAT ISSUE OR ORGANIZATION, BUT IS THE START OF A LONG-TERM PROCESS TO MANAGE ALL THE ISSUES THAT WE HAVE. AND WE REALLY HAVE A LOT OF OPEN ISSUES ABOUT THE INTERNET, A LOT OF THINGS THAT NEED TO BE ADDRESSED.
SO I HOPE THAT THE GROUP WILL FOCUS ON THAT -- ALSO ON THAT AT LEAST IN THE LAST PHASE. AND I HOPE THAT, IN ANY CASE -- I MEAN, SOMEONE SAID THAT YOU CANNOT GOVERN A SYSTEM WITH AN ENTITY THAT IS LESS COMPLEX THAN THE SYSTEM ITSELF. SO DEFINITELY, ONE SINGLE PLACE, ONE SINGLE ORGANIZATION IS NOT THE RIGHT WAY TO DO IT.
WHAT I THINK WE NEED IS SOMETHING VERY -- WELL, A COORDINATION POINT. I WOULD CALL SOMETHING LIKE AN INTERNET POLICY (INAUDIBLE) GROUP WITH THE IETF OR SOMETHING THAT CAN JUST COORDINATE AND DISPATCH ISSUES AND KEEP EVERYTHING RUNNING IN AN ORDERLY WAY.
>>HILARY BOWKER: THANK YOU. RAIMUNDO.
>>RAIMUNDO BECA: NOW I'M GOING TO SPEAK IN SPANISH.
JUST A FINAL REMARK. AS REGARDS THE DIGITAL DEBATE, THE EXPRESSION IS THE WORLD IS DIVIDED BETWEEN THE HAVES AND THE HAVE-NOTS. IT'S A SENTIMENT THAT COMES OUT FROM (INAUDIBLE). IN THIS NOVEL OF THE 16TH CENTURY THEY MENTIONED THE GAP BETWEEN THOSE THAT HAVE AND THOSE THAT HAVE NOT. SO THE DIVISION BETWEEN THE RICH AND THE POOR COMES FROM VERY ANCIENT TIMES.
THE TRUTH IS, IF WE CONSIDER THE GAP THAT EXISTS BETWEEN MINORITIES AND MAJORITIES AT THE LEVEL OF THE INTERNET, THEY ARE NOT AS IMPORTANT AS THOSE GAPS THAT EXIST IN THE REST OF THE SOCIETY. WE CAN CHOOSE THE REST OF THE CIVIL SOCIETY, RELIGION, RELIGIOUS MINORITIES, ETHNIC MINORITIES, WOMEN. THE SITUATION ALWAYS IS GOING TO BE BETTER REPRESENTED ON THE INTERNET, NOT THE REST OF THE CIVIL SOCIETY. SO THE QUESTION IS NOT AS MUCH THE DIGITAL DEBATE BUT THE QUESTION IS WE HAVE TO PUT MORE INTERNET INTO THE WORLD, TO OFFER MORE ACCESS TO THE INTERNET WORLDWIDE. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
>>HILARY BOWKER: THANK YOU.
SHARIL.
>>SHARIL TARMIZI: THANK YOU, RAIMUNDO, AND I'D LIKE TO ACTUALLY FOLLOW-UP ON THAT POINT. AND I THINK THE ISSUE OF DIGITAL DIVIDE IS A BIG ISSUE IN MOST DEVELOPING COUNTRIES AND WHAT WE NEED TO DO IS FOCUS THE ENERGY ON BUILDING ACCESS. AND ONCE YOU HAVE THAT, THEN YOU HAVE WHAT IT IS I THINK YOU NEED TO GOVERN.
>>HILARY BOWKER: MARKUS.
>>MARKUS KUMMER: LET ME CONCENTRATE IN MY COMMENTS ON MY CORE BUSINESS THAT IS THE U.N.
I DO UNDERSTAND THE FRUSTRATION OF THE ENGINEERS IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR WITH THE TALKS AND TALKS AND TALKS GOING ON IN THE U.N. CONTEXT. HOWEVER, THEY'RE ACTION ORIENTED AND DIPLOMACY FUNCTIONS DIFFERENTLY. AND THE U.N. HAS BEEN DERIDED AS A TALKING SHOP BUT AS YOU SAID HILARY, SOMETIMES IT'S BETTER TO TALK RATHER THAN TO WAGE WAR. AND HERE I THINK THERE IS A PERCEIVED NEED FOR DISCUSSION AND THIS PERCEIVED NEED FOR DISCUSSION COMES TO A LARGE EXTENT FROM DEVELOPING COUNTRIES WHO FEEL THEY ARE NOT PART OF GLOBAL GOVERNMENT ARRANGEMENTS. NOW, WHETHER THIS IS REAL OR NOT DOES NOT MAKE A MUCH OF A DIFFERENCE. BUT IT IS PERCEIVED AND SO IT HAS BECOME AN ISSUE.
LET ME ALSO SAY A FEW WORDS ABOUT TRENDS IN GLOBAL GOVERNMENTS AND THESE ARE DEFINITELY TOWARDS MULTI-STAKEHOLDER APPROACHES.
THE INTERNET IN THIS REGARD IS RATHER UNIQUE AS THE PRIVATE SECTOR AND CIVIL SOCIETY WERE HERE FIRST AND GOVERNMENTS DISCOVERED IT LATER. BUT NOW THEY'RE KNOCKING ON THE DOOR AND THEY WANT TO HAVE AN INCREASED SAY IN THIS.
MARILYN MADE THE QUESTION, AND WITH THE WSIS PRINCIPLES, WE HAD A VERY GOOD DISCUSSION IN OUR GROUP. AND WE REALIZED SOME OF THESE ARE ACTUALLY CONTRADICTORY. IF YOU HAVE TALKS ABOUT INTERNET GOVERNANCE SHOULD BE MULTILATERAL AND AT THE SAME TIME IT SHOULD INVOLVE ALL STAKEHOLDERS. THESE ARE A CONTRADICTION IN TERMS AS A CLASSICAL MULTILATERAL ORGANIZATION IS INTERGOVERNMENTAL IN CHARACTER AND THE OTHER STAKEHOLDERS HAVE ONLY ROOM AS OBSERVERS AND ARE NOT INVOLVED IN THE DECISION-MAKING PROCESS AND THIS BRINGS ME BACK A FINAL COMMENT. AS THE BRAZILIAN MEMBER OF THE NATIONAL STEERING COMMITTEE SAID, THE U.N. SHOULD NOT BE IN CHARGE OF INTERNET GOVERNANCE OR ANY OTHER INTERGOVERNMENTAL ORGANIZATION FOR THAT MATTER, AND I REALLY SINCERELY THINK THIS WILL NOT HAPPEN BECAUSE PRECISELY OF THE NATURE OF CLASSICAL INTERGOVERNMENTAL ORGANIZATIONS WHERE THE GOVERNMENTS REMAIN AMONG THEMSELVES.
I THINK THIS WOULD NEVER BE ACCEPTABLE TO VERY IMPORTANT PLAYERS AROUND THE TABLE OF THE WSIS NEGOTIATIONS.
HOWEVER, THERE IS MAYBE ROOM FOR SOME MULTI-STAKEHOLDER DIALOGUE TO ADDRESS ALL THE QUESTIONS RELATED TO THE INTERNET WHICH GO FAR BEYOND THE QUESTIONS ICANN HAS RESPONSIBILITY FOR AND WHICH WAS, I THINK, ALSO SOMETHING VINT CERF MADE IN HIS REMARKS AND WOLFGANG KLEINWACHTER ALLUDED TO. DEVELOPING COUNTRIES HAVE A LEGITIMATE INTEREST TO DISCUSS SOME OF THESE QUESTIONS WHICH, FOR DEVELOPED COUNTRY, ARE USUALLY DISCUSSED IN A FORUM SUCH AS THE OECD, BUT THAT IS WHAT DEVELOPING COUNTRIES ARE NOT PART OF.
SO I THINK THERE IS ROOM FOR MOVING FORWARD IN A NONCONTROVERSIAL WAY, AND MY LAST REMARK, AGAIN, I WOULD HOPE TO KEEP THE ICANN COMMUNITY ENGAGED IN THIS PROCESS AND MAKE A CONSTRUCTIVE CONTRIBUTION TO THESE DISCUSSIONS.
THANK YOU.
>>HILARY BOWKER: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MARKUS. FOR A DIPLOMAT YOU ARE COMING DANGEROUSLY CLOSE TO A BLUNT STATEMENT.
THANK YOU. I THINK WE APPRECIATE IT.
ALEJANDRO.
>>ALEJANDRO PISANTY: THANK YOU, HILARY.
AS REGARDS REGIONALIZATION THAT RAIMUNDO HAS MENTIONED IS A VERY IMPORTANT ISSUE IN CERTAIN CONTEXT; HOWEVER, THERE ARE CERTAIN QUESTIONS -- FOR INSTANCE, THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN PEOPLE AND ENTITIES WITHIN THE INTERNET. WE COULD SAY THAT IT GOES AGAINST A VISION THAT WE HAVE TO ANALYZE. (INAUDIBLE) SAID THAT THE TRANSITION OF THE COMMUNITY BASED ON GEOGRAPHICAL SPACE BASED ON THE INFLOWS OR FLOWS, AND PEOPLE ARE JUST IN TOUCH WITH PEOPLE FROM INSIDE THEIR GEOGRAPHICAL COMMUNITY? WHY, BECAUSE PEOPLE WITHIN THE LOCAL COMMUNITY DO NOT SHARE THE SAME INTEREST, SO FREE SOCIETY SHOULD HAVE A GROWING SPACE, AS DR. BERTOLA SAID. IT'S NOT JUST SPACE OF CHAIRS AROUND THE TABLE BUT IT IS A SPACE OF ACTIVE PARTICIPATION, PROACTIVE PARTICIPATION THAT WILL HAVE AN IMPACT ON THE DECISION-MAKING PROCESS.
SO WE HAVE TO BE CONCERNED ON THE ROLE THAT THE CIVIL SOCIETY AND ACADEMIA SHOULD PLAY. IT SHOULD BASED ON THE ROLE OF STAKEHOLDER, BECAUSE THE QUESTION HERE IS PRECISELY WHO IS A STAKEHOLDER. SOMEBODY WHO HAS SOMETHING AT STAKE. SO SOMEBODY THAT HAS MAYBE ITS LIFE OR BUSINESS AT STAKE, NOT JUST A MERE OBSERVER.
SO TO THAT EXTENT, CIVIL SOCIETY CAN FIND SPACES IN ICANN THAT, UNFORTUNATELY, ARE NOT ADEQUATELY USED AT THE LEVEL OF THE NONCOMMERCIAL COMMUNITY. WE HAVE TO IMPROVE THE REPRESENTATION OF THE COMMUNITY OF USERS WITH NONCOMMERCIAL PURPOSE. SO WE HAVE TO START MEASURING THE ACTIVITY, THE EFFICIENCY OF THE APPROACH WITH USE IN THE AT-LARGE ADVISORY COMMITTEE, INCLUDING EVEN IMPORTANT CHANGES IN THE PARTICIPATION OF THE AT-LARGE ADVISORY COMMITTEE IN THE DECISION-MAKING PROCESS.
AND AS REGARDS THE LEGAL REGULATION THAT THE AMBASSADOR HAS JUST MENTIONED, AS REGARDS PRIVATE GOVERNANCE, IT'S NOT NEW FOR INTERNET. THE QUESTION -- THERE IS A LOT OF BIBLIOGRAPHY AS REGARDS THE INSET OF PRIVATE GOVERNANCE. AND IN THE COUNTRIES WITH A TRADITION OF POSITIVE LAW IN THE CASE OF EUROPE AND LATIN AMERICA, THE CREATION OF LAWS, RULES FOLLOWED BY THE SOCIETY IMPOSED BY LEGISLATIVE POWER, WE WANT THE LAWS THAT RULE THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY WILL BE BASED ON DEMOCRACY AND ON TREATIES OF CONVENTIONAL NATURE, THE PARTICIPATION OF CITIZENS, THE PARTICIPATION OF PRIVATE SECTOR OF ACADEMIA MAKES THIS A VERY LONG-TERM GOAL, AND IN THE SHORT TERM, THE SELF-REGULATION MECHANISM WILL BE USED AS THE MOST EFFICIENT WAY OF PARTICIPATION SO THAT IN THE SHORT TERM WE'LL BE APPROVING THE USEFULNESS OF THIS TRADITIONAL MECHANISM TO BE EVIDENCE THAT THIS SHOULD BE PRESERVED IN THE FUTURE.

>>PANKAJ AGRAWALA: I'LL KEEP IT SHORT IN SAYING JUST THIS, THAT MY TAKE IS THINGS WILL EVOLVE, AND I DON'T THINK EVERYTHING WILL BE WRAPPED UP AND PUT IN A BOX BY NOVEMBER 2005. THAT -- EXPECTING THAT WOULD BE PROBABLY AS FOOLISH AS ASKING THE WRIGHT BROTHERS 100 YEARS BACK TO STOP FLYING BECAUSE THE SOFTWARE IS NOT READY. SO MY TAKE IS THAT WE WILL HAVE TO FIND SOLUTIONS, WE HAVE TO DEBATE AGGRESSIVELY. AND AS VINT SAYS, IF IT IS WORKING, WHY FIX IT, SO THE SHOW MUST GO ON. THANK YOU.
>>VINTON CERF: SO I KNOW I SAID IF IT ISN'T BROKEN, DON'T FIX IT, BUT THERE ARE SOME THINGS THAT NEED FIXING IN ICANN AND ELSEWHERE. SO I'M GOING THE FOLLOWING SUMMARY. FIRST OF ALL, THERE IS NO DOUBT THAT WE CAN AND SHOULD IMPROVE THE PROCESSES BY WHICH ICANN DOES ITS WORK. NOT ONLY THAT BUT WE HAVE A LONG LIST OF TECHNICAL PROBLEMS THAT WE HAVEN'T TACKLED YET HAVING TO DO WITH THE ABILITY OF THE REGISTRY OR REGISTRAR TO BE RECOVERED IN OPERATION IF IT SHOULD FAIL. A LONG LIST OF THINGS THAT WE, AT ICANN, ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR. SEEING TO IT THAT IT BE DONE. SO THAT'S PART OF THE FIXING.
SECOND, MARKUS, I AM CONFIDENT THAT YOU WANT THE WGIG TO ARTICULATE THE ISSUES AND PROVIDE GOOD BACKGROUND INFORMATION TO HELP THE WSIS WITH ITS GOAL. SO THE MOST USEFUL THING THAT CAN COME OUT OF THE WGIG WILL BE REALLY GOOD SUBSTANTIVE AND ACCURATE TECHNICAL AND POLICY AND PROCEDURAL INFORMATION ABOUT ALL THE ASPECTS OF INTERNET. I COULD NOT EMPHASIZE MORE HOW DIVERSE THE INTERNET COMMUNITY IS. IT TOUCHES EVERYTHING.
AND SO THERE IS NO ONE SINGLE GOVERNANCE MECHANISM THAT CAN POSSIBLY DEAL WITH ALL THE THINGS THAT THE INTERNET FINDS ITSELF TOUCHING AND AFFECTING.
SO FINALLY, I DON'T BELIEVE ANY SINGLE BODY CAN OR SHOULD TRY TO DEAL WITH ALL ASPECTS OF INTERNET'S USE AND OPERATION. IT ISN'T NECESSARY TO DO THAT. THERE ARE MANY EXISTING BODIES THAT DEAL WITH SOME OF THE PROBLEMS THAT INTERNET HIGHLIGHTS. THEY CAN BE ADAPTED TO DEAL WITH SOME OF THESE PROBLEMS. PERHAPS SOME NEW BODIES NEED TO BE CREATED. ICANN IS AN EXAMPLE. WE CREATED A NEW BODY TO DEAL WITH A SET OF ISSUES THAT THE INTERNET HIGHLIGHTS.
FINALLY, I WANT TO MAKE ONE LAST TECHNICAL OBSERVATION.
THE INTERNET IS ORGANIZED AS A LAYERED STRUCTURE. IT SHOULD NOT SURPRISE YOU THAT POLICY ISSUES ARE DIFFERENT FROM ONE LAYER TO THE NEXT AND MAY REQUIRE VERY DIFFERENT KINDS OF MECHANISMS AND STAKEHOLDERS TO RESOLVE THEM.
THANK YOU, HILARY, FOR ORGANIZING THIS.
>>HILARY BOWKER: WELL, ACTUALLY, I DIDN'T ORGANIZE IT. THOSE GUYS DOWN THERE ORGANIZED IT.
I JUST WANT TO SAY ONE THING.
BECAUSE WE'VE HAD THESE (INDICATING), JUST AS -- I'M NOT A TECHIE AT ALL, AS YOU'VE PROBABLY NOTICED, BUT PEOPLE IN THE WORLD OF POLITICS AND PEOPLE IN THE WORLD OF TECHNOLOGY AND INTERNET EFFECTIVELY SPEAK TWO DIFFERENT LANGUAGES. AND MAYBE WHAT'S HAPPENING NOW IS THAT THIS IS A PROCESS WHERE THEY'RE LEARNING TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THE OTHER PERSON IS TALKING ABOUT, BECAUSE THEY MIGHT HEAR THE WORDS BUT NOT KNOW WHAT IT MEANS BECAUSE IN THEIR LANGUAGE IT MEANS SOMETHING ELSE.
SO ON THAT NOTE, I'D SAY YES, KEEP ON TALKING.
AND THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH, AND THANK YOU FOR BEARING WITH US FOR BEING A LITTLE BIT OVER TIME.
(4:43 P.M.)

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