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ICANN Meetings in São Paulo, Brazil

Captioning - CCNSO Council Meeting

6 December 2006

Note: The following is the output of the real-time captioning taken during the CCNSO Council Meeting held on 6 December 2006 in São Paulo, Brazil. Although the captioning output is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors. It is posted as an aid to understanding the proceedings at the session, but should not be treated as an authoritative record.

>>CHRIS DISSPAIN: We will formally convene this meeting of the ccNSO Council.

(Poor audio.)

We have quite a lot of items on our agenda to get through so we will try to do it as best we can.

For those of you who haven't been to a council meeting before, I think probably most of you have, the ccNSO Council is slightly different from the GNSO council in that in the GNSO, most of the decisions and things are done at a council level. In the ccNSO, we kind of just do what the members tell us to do.

So most of our job is to ratify things that come up in our members' meeting and so on and so forth.

We do have some logistical things we need to deal with. The first is, and it's the first item on the agenda, is positions of chair and vice chair of the council. That comes up every year at the last meeting of the year.

Patricio, do you want to say something? Oh, yes, you are quite right. I am currently the chair and my term ends at this meeting. Patricio is vice chair and his term also ends.

I have -- We're also dealing with the fact that, some of us, because of our rules of three-year terms as members of the council stand -- step down at the end of this meeting, and we then run an election. That will be in February, so that at our meeting in Lisbon in March, new council members will take their seats on the council.

That has particular relevance to the chair position this time around because I will step down as a councillor at the end of this meeting.

I am intending to nominate again for the council, but it's a matter for the Asia-Pacific region members whether I am reelected or not.

So that's the current position. What we need to do is to agree a chair and a vice chair.

>>PATRICIO POBLETE: Since both the term of the chair and vice chair are ending after this meeting, I propose we reappoint Chris as interim chair until such time as the council elect a new chair which will happen before the meeting at Lisbon.

>>: I second that suggestion.

>>CHRIS DISSPAIN: Okay. In the usual way of these things with ccNSO, rather than vote, does anybody have any objections to that?

Okay, good. So thank you.

I would like to -- Patricio is not stepping down this time around, so I would like to nominate Patricio for the position of vice chair.

Does anybody else want to nominate themselves or somebody else for vice chair?

Would somebody second my proposal for Patricio? Thank you, Young Eum.

You can all second it. Dotty seconds it.


>>: (Inaudible.)

>>: Could you please review the terms --


>>: -- of the people who are serving ten years or three years and how that is --

>>CHRIS DISSPAIN: You want me to go through that?

>>: Yeah, because it's not a long thing but it's hard to remember what's happening when.

>>CHRIS DISSPAIN: I am going to do that when we come to the next item, which is the forthcoming elections.

>>: That's good.

>>CHRIS DISSPAIN: So that's proposed.

Anyone -- and seconded. Any objections to Patricio? Good. So that's that item. Thank you.

The second one is the forthcoming elections.

One person -- one councillor in each region steps down. This time around for the African region, it's Mohamed El Bashir who is not with us today. He is stepping down.

Asia-Pacific is me. Europe is Bart Vastenburg. North America is Bernie Turcotte who is also not with us today. And Latin America is Oscar Robles who is also not with us today.

Paulos? Is it not Mohamed? Well, it's either Paulos or Mohamed.

So what will happen -- Just for clarity, what will happen is towards the end of January we will put out a call for -- we have done this twice now so we are fairly good at this. We will put out a call for nominations. You do not have to be a member of the ccNSO to be nominated, but you do have to be a member to nominate.

So if you want to nominate someone, you can only do that if you are a member.

People who are standing for election to the council need to be nominated by a member in their region and they can nominate themselves, and they need to be seconded by another member in their region.

Once that happens, then there's a vote, which is electronic, and once we've got all the votes in, then we count those up and the winner is elected to the council and will, as I said, take their seat in Lisbon.

So we don't have to actually do anything in respect to that item, but I just want everyone to be clear.

The third item on the agenda is the -- is our IDN working group.

Now, this actually exists. There is an IDN working group. And some of the members include Hotta-San and Slobodan and Charles Sha'ban and various other people.

We are still going to accept other people who would like to be members. I don't want it to get too big but I am comfortable that we can still accept people on as members.

We do need to appoint a chair.

Hiro, would you talk to that?

>>HIRO HOTTA: Yes, thank you, Chris.

First of all, I want to give information about the status of the working group now.

So far, as far as I know, nine people volunteered to join the IDN working group. Seven responded to Chris's invitation a while ago. They are Mohamed El Bashir from Sudan, (saying name) Chan from Taiwan, and me from Japan, Colin Jackson from New Zealand, Ming-Cheng Liang from Taiwan, Slobodan Markovic from Serbia, Charles Sha'ban from Jordan. And additional, too, stated their interest. They are Ming Park from Korea and Jonathan (saying name) from Hong Kong, nine in total.

I think all of the nine people will be members of the working group. And following the previous ccNSO Council conference call, Chris asked me if I was ready to be appointed as chair of the working group.

In response to that, I declined the appointment because I knew I couldn't devote enough time to the chairmanship. So we need to appoint someone else, as Chris said.

At this moment, I would like to move to appoint Dr. Ming-Cheng Liang from TWNIC as chair of the ccNSO IDN working group.

>>CHRIS DISSPAIN: I'll second that.

Anyone object to that? He is happy to do that, obviously, Hiro?

>>HIRO HOTTA: I hope so.

>>CHRIS DISSPAIN: Is he here? Stand up. You are happy to -- thank you very, very much. It's going to be a big job, but thank you.

>>HIRO HOTTA: Thank you very much.

>>CHRIS DISSPAIN: Could I just ask a question, Hiro? Are you comfortable -- I am conscious that dot IDN issues are obviously of great importance to those that have pictographic languages, but they are also important in other character sets that are alphabetical character sets.


>>CHRIS DISSPAIN: Do we have enough representation on the working group to cover that particular aspect, do you think?

>>HIRO HOTTA: The gravity is on the Asia, as you know. So I think we have to have some more people, some more members from the North America, Latin America.

>>CHRIS DISSPAIN: So we should maybe consider asking somebody who uses a Cyrillic alphabet --


>>CHRIS DISSPAIN: -- or --


>>CHRIS DISSPAIN: Or whatever. We'll do that, but that's not a reason for the working group not to start working.

The first step for this working group is -- needs to be, I think, to get clear about what its job is.


>>CHRIS DISSPAIN: So with the IANA working group, we have a charter. So I think we should probably ask this working group to, first of all --


>>CHRIS DISSPAIN: -- prepare a charter.

>>HIRO HOTTA: May I give some more information about that?

>>CHRIS DISSPAIN: Yes, please.


I will make a presentation in the IDN workshop in this afternoon. The presentation is the one which summarizes the discussion in the ccNSO meeting yesterday. That can be -- I believe that can be a base of the IDN working group's future job.

I sent that draft out to the ccNSO and the ccTLD members' list. So if you have comments, please give them to me in three hours.

And the IDN working group will gather just after the ccNSO Council meeting to discuss about how we proceed.


>>HIRO HOTTA: Thanks.

>>CHRIS DISSPAIN: And also, there is a breakfast tomorrow morning --


>>CHRIS DISSPAIN: -- a joint breakfast for you and the GNSO IDN working group.

>>HIRO HOTTA: Right, right.

>>CHRIS DISSPAIN: Excellent.


At our -- At our council breakfast with the board, ICANN board this morning, Vint asked if we could, as soon as possible, provide them with the -- with the -- not an exclusive list but a list of the overarching questions that we considered yesterday. You know, who should choose, how many characters, et cetera.

He would appreciate that input to the board soon so that they can start thinking, also, about these things.

And the other piece of information on IDN is that, on Monday, the ccNSO/GAC joint liaison group met to talk about getting our relationships -- or getting our interface with the GAC back on track. And we flagged that during the meeting in Lisbon, IDN.IDN is going to be a very important discussion that we need to be having jointly with them.

So that working group is currently working on the logistics of how we organize that meeting so we have a useful meeting with them, rather than just turning up and reporting.


Anyone else got anything on IDNs that they need to say?


Thank you. If you just leave it here, we will use it. Thanks.

>>: Thanks, Chris. I just wanted to know, (inaudible) a linkage or if there needs to be any linkage between the IANA working group and the IDN working group, especially with the IDNs coming up.

>>CHRIS DISSPAIN: Well, maybe the answer to that is that someone should -- someone who is on both should be on -- can report.

I don't want to overcomplicate -- probably yes, but not yet. I mean, I think we need to do some groundwork first to get clear. And then I think we can more easily assess whether -- what the answer to your question is.

I'm not sure.

>>: What I can do is to raise the issue in the working group first and give --


>>: -- some input about it.

>>CHRIS DISSPAIN: Thanks, Louis.

>>: And don't know from the IDN one, if it can be arranged also.


>>BART VASTENBURG: Perhaps I missed something but what structure are we giving? How are we -- how is the working group going to pick this up to give more scope to the discussion we had in the course of this week?

Because we're picking up an entirely new part of the IDN discussion.


>>BART VASTENBURG: We want to push that forward over the next couple of ICANN meetings.


>>BART VASTENBURG: Will that be set out in the form of an action plan which will be sent to both the council and the community?


>>BART VASTENBURG: How will that be done?

>>CHRIS DISSPAIN: The first step is that the working group will draft a charter which will include a plan of action.

That has to be approved -- That has to be approved by the council. That doesn't have to be approved in Lisbon. It can be approved on the list.

So we will endeavor to approve that. And that will also go to members for comment, so if we missed anything, we have forgotten something, they will tell us and we will put it in.

Is that clear?


Okay. Next is the regions working group. We need to formally agree to set up a working group on the -- on the regions.

I was going to say on the ICANN regions, but actually, it could just be on the ccNSO regions. So maybe we should just say on the regions.

And Dave Archbold has agreed, who gave the presentation yesterday, has agreed to chair that working group.

What we normally do with these is we agree to set the working group up and we appoint a chair, and then we go out to the list for -- or lists, members, non-members, for volunteers to be on the working group.

So what we need to do today is to formally approve the formation of the regional working group and the appointment of Dave Archbold as the chair.

So I'm happy to propose that, if I could have a second.

>>YOUNG EUM LEE: Second.

>>CHRIS DISSPAIN: Thank you, Young Eum. Anyone against?


This is the last council meeting which Eva will be a councillor. She has a Nominating Committee appointment. She steps down at the end of this meeting. And I would like to say thank you for all of the hard work you have put in over the last two years. And for your views and your contribution. And I'd like to formally propose a motion that we -- that the council formally thanks you. And the way we normally do this is -- it's seconded by Dotty, and I would like to pass that resolution by acclamation.

[ Applause ]

>>DOTTY SPARKS DE BLANC: May I say something?

>>CHRIS DISSPAIN: Yes, you may.

>>DOTTY SPARKS DE BLANC: Eva is an extremely hard worker and she is dogged in her persistence. And she actually moved us forward when we were in disarray.

So she did an excellent job, and thank you.

>>CHRIS DISSPAIN: Thanks, Dotty.


>>EVA FROLICH: I'm not sure this is on. Thank you, Dotty, for your kind words, and thank you, Chris. It's been a pleasure for me to be on the ccNSO Council.

I tried to do my best. I know that there are some people who might have other opinions, but -- This belongs to the society.

You will still see me hanging around, sometimes, maybe, in these meetings but I am moving a little bit over to the gTLD space by now.

And I want to also take the opportunity to welcome my successor, which I think Chris will introduce you.


>>EVA FROLICH: Thank you.

>>CHRIS DISSPAIN: Thank you, Eva. We have a new Nominating Committee appointment to the ccNSO Council who takes her seat at the end of this meeting, and that's Becky Burr. Becky, can you stand up so everyone can see you? Thank you.

So Becky will join the council at the end of this meeting. Welcome, and we are looking forward to working with you.

Under the bylaws we -- each of the regional organizations appoints a liaison to the council. And there have been some changes to those appointments, and in fact, a new appointment.

So the European region, CENTR European region, has appointed Peter Van Roste as their appointment. Peter, could you stand up? Thank you very much. So welcome.

In the Latin America/Caribbean region, Margarita Valdes has been appointed as the -- yes, it's okay. Don't panic -- as the regional liaison. Margarita.

Thank you.

And the APTLD has finally got around to appointing a liaison. We decided to wait until we actually appointed a general manager on the basis that that would be the best person to be the liaison.

So Don is not here, is he? No. Don Hollander, who most of you will have seen wandering around with a gaucho hat on for the most of this week has been appointed as the APTLD liaison. So welcome, Don.

We have two working groups that we need to formally close because they are not working -- they are not doing any work anymore. It's the budget working group and the apportionment fee working group.

Neither of those have -- at the moment, have an ongoing role. So we need to just formally agree to close those.

You propose that? Thanks.

Anyone got a problem with that? Okay.

At the meeting in Marrakech, the council agreed that we would, for the time being, not -- not have a formal independent Secretariat. We decided that we still weren't sure whether or not it was -- whether we needed it. It's not a decision that was set in stone. We just said that for the time being, we would not.

But what we also said was that we would ask ICANN if they would appoint an additional staff member for the purposes of providing some Secretariat services to us, because currently, Donna has been doing much of that, and she actually has a lot of other things to be doing from a -- helping us with our policy, et cetera.

ICANN has appointed -- I need to get my piece of paper here. Give me one second.


ICANN announced today that Gabriella Kondrat has been appointed as the -- to provide us with Secretariat services. Some of you will know Gabby. Gabby used to work at CENTR.

She is based in Warsaw, and she is not moving. She is staying in Warsaw. It is Warsaw, isn't it? Am I right? Warsaw.

And she is going to be assisting us with our Secretariat requirements for the time being.

You are looking shocked, Raul.

It's K-o-n-d-r-a-t, Kondrat.

I will post to the list as soon as I can, one, some information about Gabby for those who don't know her, and also the list -- the job description.

But for those of you around the ICANN a fair bit, she is going to be doing the sorts of things Glen does for the GNSO. She will be obviously attending ICANN meetings and helping us with our meetings, our minutes. And her first job is going to be to sort out the Web site, our Web sites, the pages of Web site.

Because currently, there is no list of councillors, there is no information, et cetera. And that's critically important that when you go to either or you actually get information that helps you as opposed to just, you know, links to various other places.

So that's the first thing she is going to be doing, and she will be at the meeting in Lisbon.

I just want to stress that we -- we're really not sure how this is going to work. We are going to try it and see what happens. And after a little while, we will come back to it, and talk to the members and see whether it is working or whether that we should -- we should appoint an independent Secretariat.

Anybody else want to comment on that?


Staff member?

>>CHRIS DISSPAIN: Donna, she is a full-time staff member? No, she is a part-time staff member.

I don't think anybody would imagine that providing us with Secretariat services is a full-time job.

The next item on the agenda is a proposal from the IANA working group on its membership. So Olivier, could I ask you to take that one?

>>OLIVIER GUILLARD: Yes, a quick word on that.

As I tried to say over the report, the future of the working group is not -- might -- the way the working group is shaped might need to be reviewed.

The current situation is that when the working group had been set up, considering the issues addressed and the outcome expected from the working group, a rule of two members per region had been set up to ensure, at the same time, a good diversity of participants in the group as well as limitating the number of participants to produce an outcome, because an outcome was expected.

So we are still in this situation. We have ten member in the group.

Know there had been a clear demand from the community to participate in the group, so we have considered to propose a protocol to provide the opportunity to the community to participate in the IANA working group.

It has been quite discussed in the working group. The protocol proposed has been sent to the council. It might be perceived, and it is quite an heavy process, I think.

However, after having considered this carefully, we have concluded in the group that such a protocol would be a mechanism that would allow new colleagues to participate and to be involved in the -- in this process. And it will also provide a visible and transparent process, accessible and visible by the community.

So I would like -- Once again, it might be a temporary situation, but -- so the idea would be to propose a mechanism so that members of the working group are able to rotate. New people coming in and other coming out.

And I think if it's accepted by the council, we could implement it for having the rotation performed for Lisbon.

>>CHRIS DISSPAIN: Any questions from the council on the proposal?

I just need to say, Olivier, assuming we approve this in the usual way, it will then go -- our decision will be posted. This will be posted to members and then they can object, if they have -- if there is any objection.

But as I understand it, this proposal, this membership protocol proposal, has been agreed by the working group.



>>OLIVIER GUILLARD: Yeah. It's a working group proposal to the --

>>CHRIS DISSPAIN: So does anyone have any questions?

Can I have a proposal for the resolution? Perhaps, Olivier, you should propose the resolution. It's your report, so -- you do it.


>>CHRIS DISSPAIN: All right. I will propose that -- I can't propose. It's not my resolution.

Okay, okay, okay. Somebody, please propose that we adopt --

Thank you, Eva. Seconded by (saying name). Thank you. Anybody object?

So what we will do is we will adopt this report of the IANA working group on its membership. And as I said, we'll post it for objection by members.

>>OLIVIER GUILLARD: Practically, it will be sent to the ccNSO member list?

>>CHRIS DISSPAIN: Yes, we will send it to all the lists.

We have two more items on the agenda. One of them is actually not on the agenda because I only just remembered it. And that is that we have been asked by the ICANN board to provide them with a person in each region who can be the point of contact in the event of a disaster, a commercial or a disaster where ICANN is bringing into play its contingency plan.


>>: (Inaudible.)

>>CHRIS DISSPAIN: No, I don't believe so. I don't believe so.

>>: Chris?


>>: New membership.

>>CHRIS DISSPAIN: Yes, I'll get there.

No, it is a representative of the ccTLD community in the region.

So, no, it does not need to be -- Peter, you are a board member. You are not aware of it needing to be a technical person, are you?


>>CHRIS DISSPAIN: That may very well be sensible, although that won't work in your case because you are already on the board.

So it needs to be someone separate, because the idea is that they go into a sort of -- they go into a sort of enclave with the chair and talk about what needs to happen.

And I think it's supposed to be separate from the board.

>>: (Inaudible.)

>>CHRIS DISSPAIN: Yeah, it could be. So what I am going to suggest, we won't decide today, but what I am going to suggest is we simply, again, put a note out to the list saying we need a volunteer from each region to be this person. I will get an explanation of what the actual job is, and then we'll get people to put -- to nominate.

Yes, Bart.

>>BART VASTENBURG: Actually, Peter brought up an interesting question. Do we want to have any qualifications set before we actually ask for volunteers for this position? Because, actually, you make a good point. I would say, this is a personal opinion, that we need people there with a big professional -- personal/professional interest. And I would say the most suitable people would be GMs and not members from associations who perhaps don't have the direct professional impact.

>>CHRIS DISSPAIN: That's probably right.

So if we -- If I get Vint or whoever to send us a note explaining exactly what the role is, and then we will send it out and ask for volunteers. Okay?

>>BART VASTENBURG: Then I would propose that perhaps we come up as a council with the suggestion of the qualifications, and then we will send it out to the membership.

>>CHRIS DISSPAIN: Good idea.

>>BART VASTENBURG: And then for each region, how do we proceed? By region we get volunteers and then we vote?

>>CHRIS DISSPAIN: Hopefully that won't be necessary, but yes. This is a very, very, very important role in a very.

(Poor audio.)

>>CHRIS DISSPAIN: ICANN's contingency plan which is a corporate disaster where they run out of money or appears to be insolvent.

(poor audio).


>>CHRIS DISSPAIN: Talking about the corporate contingency plan.

Thanks. The last item.

(poor audio).

We have applications to join the ccNSO from (saying names), and we have done our due diligence. We have received, in the case of each one of them, a report from IANA confirming that they are who they say they are, and there are no outstanding issues in respect to the ccTLD.

And so we need to, in this case, actually vote on approving their membership applications.

So I will do them one by one.

The first one is Norway. All those in favor. Is there any against?

Congratulations, Norway.

[ Applause ]

>>CHRIS DISSPAIN: Tick another one off in Europe.

[ Laughter ]

>>CHRIS DISSPAIN: The next -- what? Did you want to say something?

The next one is Jamaica. All those in favor?

Anybody against?

Well done, Jamaica.

[ Applause ]

>>CHRIS DISSPAIN: This is your first -- first meeting.

>>: Yes, it is.


And the last one is Ecuador, and I don't think Victor is in the room. Not here. Okay.

Anyway, we still have to vote.

All those in favor.

Anybody against?

We should clap for them anyway.

[ Applause ]

>>CHRIS DISSPAIN: That now brings the ccNSO membership to 57, as of today.

And there are some more applications coming, I know. So it would be fantastic if we could hit -- try and hit 60 by the time we get to Lisbon.

Anyone in the room who is not a member might like to think about it.

Is there any or business? Does anyone else want to say something?

Yes, Bart.

>>BART VASTENBURG: May I suggest that we perhaps consider for the next session, we look at the setup.


>>BART VASTENBURG: Because it apparently seems with the regions growing that there are more people on this side of the table than that side

[ Laughter ]

>>BART VASTENBURG: And I wouldn't really mind some more integration and interaction

>>CHRIS DISSPAIN: Actually, there are more people watching this council meeting than we have ever had before. Because normally it's like everyone just goes and we just do the stuff. But yes, I agree, we should do that.


>>CHRIS DISSPAIN: Anybody else need to say something? Are there any questions from the floor?


>>PETER DENGATE THRUSH: I just want to say thank you.


>>CHRIS DISSPAIN: Thank you, Peter.

Anybody else? Well, I think on that note we will close the council meeting.

Thank you, everybody.

[ Applause ]

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