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CEO Succession Forum
Monday, 24 October 2011
ICANN Meeting
Dakar, Senegal.


>> Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome George Sadowsky, chair of the
ICANN board of CEO search committee.  Thank you.

[ Applause ]

>>GEORGE SADOWSKY:  Thank you very much.  I'm really glad we were able
to have this session during this ICANN meeting.  I know that the
selection of the CEO is an important issue in ICANN, as it is for
every board.  Just an observation I'd make is that while
organizational boards have different degrees in the extent to which
they get involved in matters of organizations, there is one
fundamental obligation for a board that all organizations honor and
that is the selection and guidance of the chief executive officer.

Given the fact that Rod Beckstrom has told us that he intends to step
down at the end of his term, at the end of June next year, the board
has decided to go into action so that we have enough time, enough time
for consultation, enough time for search, enough time to do what we
need to do to ensure that we made a good selection and that the
process of turning over from Rod to the new person will be done
cleanly, well, thoroughly and accurately.

So the purpose of this session -- excuse me.  Let me see if I can use
this control.  Ah, yes, it works.

There are several purposes to this session.  First of all, we want to
inform you, the community, of the CEO search process that we are going
to undertake.  Now, in making this description, you should be aware
that the search committee is now ten days old.  We've met.  We've
talked.  We've shared opinions.  We've come to closure on a relatively
few things, but the majority of things that we'll be talking about,
we'll be doing in the next week or two and over the course of the
search.

So we may be able within this presentation to respond to many of the
questions you have, but not necessarily all of them.  We're just going
to have to say "we haven't discussed that yet."  We may have opinions.
We haven't come together.  But we will, and it is going to be
important that we not make commitments and say things before we really
understand what we're doing.

So we're going to share with you the board's view of the overarching
principles and the criteria for selection.  This description is going
to reflect the board's best thinking to date.  It's not meant to be a
closed list.  It is meant to be a list that has been seriously
considered and discussed.  But we want to come to you for community
input because if you don't know what you are looking for, anything
will satisfy it or maybe nothing will satisfy it.

And we want your opinion, and we're going to suggest ways in which --
how you can provide that opinion in the relatively short-term so we
can be sure we know what we're doing.  We want individual opinions.
We want you to tell us both here verbally and in writing later what
you feel are the criteria.  And Rod Beckstrom has given a perfect
example of that at the last session in which he gave his own
individual opinion regarding the characteristics of the new CEO that
he would like to see.

Let us know what you think, and reach out and encourage candidates you
think are good candidates to consider applying once the application
process opens.  It is really important we have a good set of
candidates.  The better the set of candidates, the better the
selection ultimately will be.

I'm joined on the platform with most of the search committee.  There
are eight of us, and that's half the voting members of the board:
Cherine Chalaby; Steve Crocker who is, I believe, not here -- he is
tending to other business -- Bertrand de La Chapelle; Chris Disspain;
Erika Mann who, I believe, is also not here but is a member of the
committee; Ray Plzak; and Rajasekhar Ramaraj.  We are the committee.
We will probably do the lion's share of the grunt work in terms of the
search process.  But you should also know that we intend to maintain a
very close relationship with regard to the process with the rest of
the board.  We're going to keep them as informed as we possibly can so
that the ultimate decision which will be made by the board will be
made by some very well-informed people.

We have a rough timeline for this process.  And it's rough because,
again, we haven't converged on exactly what deadlines -- what
milestones we're going to set.  Right now we are concerned about
refining the criteria desired, and we're going to be doing that in
October and November.  At the same time, we look for expertise in the
private sector to help us to do the search.  We'll be doing that in
November, and it's our hope that we can then start a formal search
process at or near the beginning of December.

The search and selection process, of course, is the majority of the
time and it will be going on November through April, I don't know
maybe December through March.  It is not clear.  The one thing that
will govern how quickly we move along this timeline is how thoroughly
a job -- is how thorough a job we think we're doing because if we
think we are really doing a good job and we are moving faster, we are
not going to be concerned about it.

If we think we are not doing a good job and trying to maintain the
timeline, we are going to slow down.  We, I believe, will be able to
start accepting expressions of interest at the beginning of December.
Those will all go through the search firm, the search expertise, that
we hire.  So there will be uniform treatment of all applications for
the position.

We hope to make an announcement in May and have the new CEO take
office on July 1st, 2012.

So input is welcomed from everyone.  Most of this session, by the way
-- nobody here will be talking.  We are going to be listening to you,
and you can consider this, if you wish, a dedicated open forum to
expressing your individual opinions regarding the criteria that we
should be using.

You can also express your opinions by e-mail to the search committee.
That information will stay inside the committee.  And the address is
ceosearch2012@icann.org.  These slides, by the way, will be available
-- they may already be available -- on the Web site for the Dakar
meeting.  And the session is being transcribed, so you don't have to
take notes if you are willing to go and look for those two files when
you want to think about your criteria and respond to us.

And we're going to accept input through the 15th of November, of next
month.  That is not a terribly long time.  On the other hand, if you
have ideas about this and you spend some time thinking about it, we
think it's long enough.  This is not a public comment period.  This is
a period -- an accelerated period in which we are obtaining input for
consideration for essentially ending up in the job description and the
requirements for the CEO.

Now, here we have some caveats.  ICANN is not an usual organization.
You've heard this before.  Many of our speakers will say this.  It is
not a typical for-profit organization, although we contract, we
collect money, we have a 70-some-million-dollar budget.  We have
business operations which are very important to our objectives.  It's
not a not-for-profit organization either in the same sense that most
are, although we are -- let's see, we are founded by the authority of
the Attorney General of the State of California in accordance with the
rules for founding not-for-profit corporations in California.  And we
do have a requirement to be very concerned about the global public
interest.  Those are typically not-for-profit objectives.

We, in addition, have contracts with parts of supporting organizations
in the community, and we have a major contractual agreement for one of
our major functions, the IANA function, with the Department of
Commerce of the United States.  So we essentially have many masters.
That makes the choice and the fashioning of requirements for the CEO
very different from those in a for-profit or a pure non-profit
environment.  There is no one bottom line.

In fact, in commercial organizations, there is no one bottom line
either.  But there is an overwhelming favorite, and that is cash in
has to be greater than cash out.

So we have an issue here where we want to put a lot of requirements on
this person.  It is a complex environment.  And when you see the list
of requirements, you're going to think, no one person is going to meet
all these criteria in a really good way.  And the question is:  Are we
looking for a Superman who can walk on water or leap tall buildings?
Or woman.  I'm sorry.  A person.

>> A being.

>>GEORGE SADOWSKY:  Thank you.  Who gave me that opinion?  Sebastien.
Thank you, Sebastien.  Person.

Hello, Erika.

[ Laughter ]

So that leads to the question:  Where do we really need the strengths?
Of all the criteria, which are the most important?  That's perhaps is
not the best way to put it because there is not one most important
criteria.  But, certainly, all of our candidates are going to have a
distribution of strengths across the various criteria that we have.
And it is very difficult to say which pattern is the best because
there are lots of patterns.  And, ultimately, it comes down to an
individual decision.

But there are clearly some things that are more important than others.
Some of them are dictated by the environment.  Some of them are
dictated by the strengths we already have on the ICANN board, et
cetera.

So what I want you to think about when you look at these criteria are
not only what's important but where are you going to place the
emphasis?  What are you going to look for first, second, third?  What
combinations are going to be really useful for you?

So before I go on to the criteria, I'd like to ask my fellow committee
members if there is anything they wish to add to what I've said or
subtract from it?  Steve?

>>STEVE CROCKER:  Thank you, George.  So, first of all, I apologize
for coming in late.  There was a press conference that did not want to
end.  And there were questions raised in there, of course, about CEO
succession as well.

The little byplay that just took place about the unintended miscue of
saying "Superman" and getting very quick reaction from two of our
board members, I think, is indicative of an important point, which is
we function here -- the people that you see up here -- as a subset of
the board to carry out a lot of the mechanical work and do a lot of
the assembling on behalf of the board.  This is not a closed group for
-- apart from the board.  The board will be involved in all of the key
decisions and is obviously fully engaged, as you can see, right down
to being very quick if we veer off of the proper course.

And I think that's healthy.  I think that's very healthy.

Further, that's only a microcosm of what we are doing right here right
now, which is to have a process that engages the community.  So we
expect to have a lot of input and we look forward to it.  That said,
there are some aspects which this is not going to be a group
popularity contest.  We're not going to have a public vote about who
our next CEO is going to be.  There will be a kind of business-like
process.  Exact details we will work out.

I don't know if it was covered but one of the key things that we did
in getting ourselves organized was to draw a very, very bright line
between the people involved in the process on the board and any of the
candidates that we might look at.  Every single person was asked if
they considered themselves a potential candidate even under extreme
conditions that we might change our mind and come back.  Every single
person on the current board and on the incoming board voluntarily
chose to make the declaration that they are not a candidate, will not
be a candidate under any circumstance.  And then we matched that with
a formal resolution by the board that we will not consider any current
or incoming board members as candidates under any circumstance during
this process.  So there is a very crisp, clean line.

We did not go further than that.  We did not rule out other groups of
people.  We have not said anything more.  There is a lot more for us
to discuss.  But the first thing we wanted to make clear was that the
people at the very core, at the inside of this process, are not
potential candidates whether they might change their mind or whatever,
there's no possibility that we'll wind up in that circumstance.  So I
wanted to share that.  Thank you.

>>GEORGE SADOWSKY:  Anyone else?  Erika?

>>ERIKA MANN:  I think you captured this all very well, George, with
the exception of the "guy."  But that's fine.

I have just maybe two points which I think are important.  And you
touched on them briefly.  This is the timing which I think it's
interesting to watch because it will be -- it is an interesting timing
in many ways.  The new gTLD program will be well underway, so it is
more a consolidation phase.  But nonetheless there will be many
challenges ahead of us, and it would be good -- truly good again to
find a personality which fits for those kind of challenges, which we
see.

And then, of course, the timing in many other ways because expectation
to ICANN instead of decreasing and it is rising which is on one side
very good but on the other side, when expectations are high on
different sides, particular from governments, it is always critical.
So it is as George said, indeed truly important to find the right
personality, the right character with the right professional but very
personal skills as well which suit into this complicated environment.
Because let's be frank, the way ICANN is and the multistakeholder
model that we always talk about, it is not a well-known model.  So it
is still important that this -- that we have somebody who can
translate this very well into the broader world.

Just wanted to make those short remarks, George.

>>GEORGE SADOWSKY:  Thank you.  Thank you, Steve.  I did not mention
that story, and I'm glad you brought it up, especially in view of the
press announcements which don't have the story right.  And thank you,
Erika.  I think it's clear that the challenges are changing, and
perhaps a CEO would have been very good ten years ago wouldn't be very
good now and conversely.  That's a function of how people read the
challenges and what we're going to have to do to meet them.

Okay.  So, without further ado, this represents the board's best
thinking at the present time, that there are four criteria, slightly
overlapping possibly, but, nevertheless, distinguishable:  Technical
criteria, community criteria, management and leadership skills and
personal skills and values.  I remind you this deck is on the Web site
and the session is being transcribed.

So I'm not -- I'm going to try to avoid reading all of this but leave
the slide up long enough so you can see it and you don't feel robbed
of its content.

So in the technical area, we would like the CEO to have a good
knowledge of Internet architecture up to a point but, nevertheless, a
good understanding of the unique global identifiers of the Internet
and what they mean and why they are the way they are; an understanding
of domain names and, perhaps, at some level, how the domain name
system works; knowledge of Internet protocol addresses and autonomous
system numbers, and protocol port and parameter numbers.  Some basic
understanding of this, we feel, is really important.

In addition, there is institutional knowledge, which is technical, an
understanding and familiarity with the components of ICANN among
others, the gTLD registries, registrars; ccTLD registries and all that
that implies; I.P. address registries; Internet technical standards;
protocols; PDPs, policy development procedures; and our commitment to
the public interest; and the broad range of the largest Internet
community, the community of users, consisting of businesses,
individuals, academic organizations, noncommercial users, the whole
panoply of the 2 billion -- represented by the 2 billion people that
are users of the Internet right now.  That's important.

With respect to community, we go beyond that.  And we would like the
new CEO to have a good understanding of the existing environment of
organizations involved in the development of the Internet and Internet
applications.  You can think of this as a good understanding of the
Internet ecosystem and included as examples only because there are
many more organizations than the ones listed here on this slide are
the IETF, The Internet Society, W3C, going a bit further you have
ETSI, you have the international telecommunications union, you have
the international organization for standards, the you have the Unicode
body.  There are, as we know -- we are responsible for a slice of the
Internet space.  There are lots of other slices.  These organizations
have their responsibilities and we all work together to make the
Internet safe, secure, functional, reliable.  So we want the CEO to
understand that.

And, finally, there is international awareness.  Government
stakeholders, what is their role in Internet Governance?  Now, that's
a subject which is hotly debated at the present time in which
different organizations have different opinions.  And if you had been
at the recent IGF in Nairobi a couple of weeks ago, you could have
heard a broad spectrum of opinions about what governments should or
should not do, how they should involve themselves.  It is a drama
which is in process.  And it's a very important one in terms of the
decisions taken and how they affect the future of the Internet.  It's
important that the new CEO really understand this and be able to
participate creatively and productively in those discussions.

So in order to do that, we believe that the CEO has to have experience
in interacting with a range of cultures because they're all there in
these discussions.  There are different cultures, different languages,
different scripts and different value systems.  And so the CEO has to
be comfortable in dealing with an environment like that in a way that
allows forward progress and productivity.

So, finally, the new CEO has to be sensitive to the values of ICANN
and really the Internet ecosystem, the ISTAR set of organizations and
he has to be able to build confidence and trust in this organization
by outside parties.  And he has to do it in certain ways.  First of
all, achieving operational excellence, maintaining the excellence we
have, increasing the degree to which we can be considered an excellent
operating organization.

The person has to foster respect for bottom-up, inclusive,
multistakeholder activities through the multistakeholder model which
ICANN embodies.  And as an example of one of the major issues that is
currently being debated in the international environment, the person
has to understand the natural tensions between things like
intellectual property rights, privacy, freedom of speech, freedom of
choice, awful these tensions may never -- all of these tensions may
never be resolved, but they are in play.  And the CEO has to
understand them and operate well for the benefit of ICANN and the
benefit of the Internet in these spaces.

The CEO has to be able to manage and lead.  We have now -- sorry, this
slide has some old numbers on it.  The person has to manage an
organization with a budget of 70 to $80 million right now and growing,
130 staff, probably growing; multiple offices -- excuse me, that's a
typo -- in multiple countries with a multicultural staff.  The CEO has
to be able to work with the volunteer community.  And it is a large
distributed set of volunteers who give a lot of time to develop ICANN
policy in this bottom-up process that we think is a good one, and we
want to maintain and make stronger.

So that's important.  There are large programs coming up.  The new
gTLD program is a challenge.  It is the biggest thing that ICANN has
done to date, I think, or will have done to date when it is done.  And
that needs to be managed, and it has to be not only managed but the
proper amount of delegation -- effective delegation and guidance to
the organization has to be given.  And the CEO is at the top of the
organization.  And it is that person's job to do that.

Finally, we realize that there's going to be some -- the probability
of rapid growth is much higher than the probability of staying where
we are and higher than any decrease in size.  So the CEO has to be
able to react to that growth, to plan for it, to manage it, to exploit
it to the benefit of the organization.  The issues will be complex.
The numbers -- the number of programs will likely grow, and the number
of offices will grow and, so, the CEO has to be able to do that.

And, finally -- and in this particular set of activities the IANA
contract looms large in terms of a major function that we are
committed to do under the current contract and that we would like to
continue to do under a future contract.

The CEO has to be able to prioritize and manage resources.  The CEO in
this kind of an environment, it is essential that the CEO be able to
foster consensus because we have such a variety of opinions, variety
of value systems, variety of cultures.  Building consensus is not
easy, but it is important for the reputation of the organization and
its ability to function.  Key staff need to be attracted, retained and
the CEO has to have the ability to provide the thought leadership that
will attract and energize the community and the board.

So mutual trust really is very important.  A relationship of mutual
trust has to exist between the CEO and the board and the community and
the outside organizations with which ICANN does business.  If you
don't have trust, everything is a problem.  If you do have trust, a
lot of things become easy.  This is a key.  We need to be kept up to
date and informed on key issues as a board and as a community, and we
also need to take advantage of the skills that exist on the board and
in the community.  The board at the moment consists with one exception
of volunteers also and we're very conscious of the time commitments
that members of the community make to make this organization work.
And it's really important that when we do know something and can do it
well, that's recognized and that we are used in ways that we feel good
about as well as contributing value to the organization.

And, finally, it goes without saying that the CEO has to be able to
listen to the board and act in accordance with the guidelines that the
board gives.

Finally, the fourth category, personal skills and values, we want
someone with excellent communication skills.  Communication style
varies with culture.  We need to ensure that the person understands
that and can do it to a fair extent.  We want strong listening skills.
We want big ears on our CEO.  We want good public speaking skills.  We
want negotiating skills, and negotiating skills that work toward win-
win situations.  And we want clearly a basis for this is good people
networking skills, strong relationships with not only people in the
community but people outside it.

We need someone who can show some empathy for others from a variety of
different backgrounds.  We need someone who is international.  We need
someone who understands ICANN's role, ICANN's slice of -- if you wish,
of the governance process vis-a-vis that of the other organizations in
the Internet ecosystem.  And by an understanding, not only an
understanding but a willingness to work in accordance with the
relationships that have been defined between the slices.

We want someone who is aligned with what we believe our core ICANN
values are:  Integrity, trust, humility, technical excellence, and,
above all, acting in the public interest.

And someone who embodies this multistakeholder value system and who
works within it, who wants to work within it, who believes in it, who
believes that this is the right way to proceed and wants to exploit it
for the benefit of the Internet in general.

So that concludes my remarks, and I'd like to ask members of the
committee if they'd like to add to it before we open the floor for
comments.  Bertrand?

>>BERTRAND DE LA CHAPELLE:  Thank you, George.  Just one comment.

Among this list of criteria, there will be a balance between two
poles.  As you saw, one pole is existing knowledge by the candidates
of the system, the technical dimensions, the type of actors, the
general ecosystem, and the policy issues and the technical issues.

It's a lot of things to know, because the CEO, as most of us are at
the intersection of many structures, many problems, many questions.

The second dimension is unrelated to the topics.  It's related to the
skills, the management, the leadership skills, and so on.

And so those two elements are to be taken into account when evaluating
the different candidates in terms of the proportion of those two
components.  Of course if you can have both, that's wonderful, but
sometimes you have to balance one versus the other, and this is
related also to how much the candidates have been involved in the
community or not.

I just wanted to make that point.  The general elements that I would
like to highlight are the final points that George has mentioned,
which is the embodiment of the multistakeholder values, the notions of
trust, respect, and fundamentally one of the fundamental criteria is
to make sure that the person will personify, in a large respect, this
organization and is perceived as conveying the values that the
organization practices, whoever he meets or she meets, and wherever it
is.  Thank you.

>>CHERINE CHALABY:  Thank you, George.  And perhaps one of the points
we did not stress, but it's -- I think it's mentioned there, is the
relationship between the CEO and the chairman.

And I think that it's very important that the incoming CEO forms a
very trusting and teaming relationship with the chairman, and both of
them feel that they are on the same side working for the benefit of
the same organization.

And perhaps, Steve, you want to say something about that?  You
mentioned this yesterday as well, but I think it's crucial for us that
this is a very important criteria as well.

>>STEVE CROCKER:  Thank you, Cherine.

The -- it is obviously crucial.  The way we're structured is that the
board chair has a unique and special job of herding the cats on the
board and trying to make organized sense out of a diverse set of
opinions and skills, and has been tasked in the past and in continuing
with being the spokesperson for the board to communicate the wishes
and directions of the board to the staff, and that means really to the
CEO and then the CEO manages that process through the rest of the
staff.

So as Cherine has said, an important -- a good working relationship is
essential.

And I've already said once, although I'm having a little trouble
remembering the setting, but I'm sure it will come up.  The CEO is the
primary spokesperson for the organization.  The chair of the board is
the chair of just the board.  Our selection pool is very, very small.
It is only the board members.  We don't go searching for -- worldwide
for somebody to fill the position of being chair of the board.  We
search for board members, and out of the board we choose a chair.

So my perspective, and not wanting to speak for past or future chairs,
is that my first task is to be of service to the board, to be a
spokesperson on behalf of the board to the CEO.

There are ceremonial aspects that come along.  I've been dragged now
to various meetings and sat through green rooms and press conferences
and there will be more of that to come, and it's fine.  Happy to do
that.  Try to do it without too much embarrassment or tripping and
falling or any of the usual risks.

But there is no competition, from my point of view.  We hire a CEO, we
pay well, we expect a full-time commitment, and we do not try to
compete with that from the board, not even from the chair.

>>GEORGE SADOWSKY:  Thank you, Steve.  Well, now it's your turn.  We'd
like to hear from you.  We have two microphones set up in each aisle.
We'll take questions alternately.  I would ask you to, first of all,
just state your name for the record, and to the extent you can do so,
limit your contribution to making succinct points and points that you
feel are important, so that we can hear from as many people as
possible.  Thank you.

>>JANICE DOUMA LANGE: George, Janice Lange speaking on behalf of
Kieren McCarthy of dot Nxt.  Is the board also looking at the role of
the CEO?  Will it consider breaking up the president and the CEO
roles, and will it consider making the CEO a nonvoting board member?
Thank you.

>>GEORGE SADOWSKY:  The search committee has no -- no remit to address
any of those questions, and I -- so I'm going to take a pass on that.

I would encourage you to give opinions rather than ask questions
because you're likely to hear that, well, we haven't come to closure
on that yet and you're not likely to get a lot of information.

>>ALEJANDRO PISANTY: Good afternoon.  My name is Alejandro Pisanty.
Spell that P-i-s-a-n-t-y.

I have a set of four prepared comments, after hearing this.

First, I think that there's a bit of disingenuity in the statements I
have just heard.  There's a big missing piece, which is that the board
itself is a challenge.  And I say this with full knowledge or, as we
say in Spanish, in the Spanish Twitter community #yo confieso, "I
confess."  The board can be a challenge to the CEO as large as almost
any other.  The ability to work with a shifting board coming and
going, criteria in opposite directions, internal board politics,
unclear instructions.

The CEO you're looking for must know that this board or its successors
may -- that the CEO must be able to aptly guess the outcome of
processes that are ongoing and which won't be there for a year or two
and still help have everything prepared for when a decision is made.

Chairs change, so you're probably looking in an insufficient way when
you're planning for the relationship with the present chair.  You have
to foresee very different kinds of chairs.  And there's a big question
which I think the new CEO will have to be part of and decisive, which
is the ethics questions.  Especially some of them affecting the board.

There are a number of sessions coming forward, and the balancing of
the different duties, including the duty of care for the corporation
and its good name, which is not in the hands of the CEO to produce but
certainly to manage the fallout of actions, particularly, I want to go
to board members.

Second, I do not agree with Bertrand that the two poles are what you
know and what you are able to do in this community.  This is standard
for any organization.

The two poles that I think are determinant for the future of ICANN
and, in particular, will be manifested in the choice of CEO are the
process of -- or the outlook for business facilitation, the ability or
the consideration of the ability for the ICANN environment to become a
place where new businesses can be made, and within that, whether you
want to foster speculative bubble-type kinds of businesses or
substantial long-lasting robust innovation.  That's a subset within
the business side.  And it's business facilitation versus creating and
maintaining a sense of stewardship of a global community comments of a
-- and I just repeat that these were done most deliberately -- that
this is not only a traditionist perception of the Internet but I think
that the future of the Internet is only well-served by a sense of
stewardship from ICANN.

A third point is very practical, and we know its evil consequences,
its terribly poisonous consequences.  The previous selection process
-- and I'm not pointing fingers at anyone in particular in a personal
way.  The previous selection process created a horrible hurdle for the
new CEO to meet three years -- three years ago, which is, it says to
the community, "We don't want any of you.  You are too academic.  You
are too much of an insider.  You are too much of a domainer.  You are
too much of a ccTLD manager, too much of anything that we have already
seen.  We want something completely new and different."  That created
a very difficult job for the new CEO.  The new CEO had to be
superhuman because he would have to tell the community, "I am much" --
the community was asking, "So who is this superman that's better than
any of us?"  So transmitting to the community that it's a worthy
community, that it can produce good CEOs, is not only important for
the community but also for whoever you decide to designate, because
you will be creating an artificial hurdle that's very hard to beat if
you taint the position in such a way.

And the fourth one is to consider two very practical hiring points.

One of them is that ICANN will probably -- will be best served by a
CEO for whom there is a clear statement of place of residence and the
option that salaries are not a ratchet mechanism which only functions
in one direction, that as much as they can rise, they can also be
started at a lower position, would also serve all of the above.  Thank
you.

>>GEORGE SADOWSKY:  Thank you.  Steve?

>>STEVE CROCKER:  So in addition to spelling Alejandro's name
correctly, we should also note that Alejandro is a close friend and
valued colleague who served as vice chair of the board for a number of
years, and I have the highest respect and affection for him and
greatly enjoyed, thoroughly enjoyed, serving on the board with him as
vice chair.

So Alejandro, you raise several different points, sort of exceeding
our ability to remember them accurately as we go, so -- but I'll take
a shot.

With respect to the board being a challenge, we have all heard this
and I've lived through multiple administrations and watched the
dynamics.  I want to take issue with you, actually, on this.

We are a bunch of pussycats.  We're easy.  What I think has not
actually happened well in the past -- and this spans multiple
relationships -- is that the board, like any other group, needs to be
given a certain amount of attention, given information, brought into
confidence.

There's been a -- historically -- and I don't want to characterize
this just in the present circumstance -- a sense of distance and a
sense that the board is difficult to deal with.  I actually think that
our board, particularly now, is eager, absolutely eager, to have a
close, comfortable, supportive working relationship with the CEO.

I've -- in the time that I've been first vice chair for a few months
and now chair for even fewer months, have been working very hard to
try to develop the processes inside, most of which would not be
visible and not -- not real exciting, flow of information, setting
expectations, trying to build a certain level of discipline within the
board.

I'm -- I'm expecting that as a group, that we will become easier and
easier to deal with.  The other side of that is that in the many, many
constituencies that a CEO has to identify and has to sort of
understand what -- what it will take to build that kind of
relationship, whether it's governments or whether it's the TLD
community or whether it's business in general or the technical
community, the board itself is a small, but very distinct, community
of its own and has -- yes, indeed, it imposes a bit of a load on the
CEO just like any group does, but I actually don't think that it's all
that hard and I look forward to a very, very supportive, close, and
positive relationship.  I think it will feed on itself and go well.

The -- I'm being passed a note saying that I should say less and say
thank you for your input, basically.

[ Laughter ]

>>STEVE CROCKER:  Very good advice.  But I wanted to respond to that
first point.

The other points are all extremely important and worth listening to,
but I think I will take the advice that's just been passed to me here.
Thank you.

>>GEORGE SADOWSKY:  Okay.  From my left.

>>DESIREE MILOSHEVIC: Okay.  My name is Desiree Miloshevic, senior
public policy advisor with Afilias but sharing my personal opinion
here.

First of all, thank you for a very good presentation and the
requirements that you're looking for in the new CEO.  I think this
approach is much more open and I appreciate that.

One little thing that I'd like to add to that is that it would be
really beneficial if all the applications of the candidates would be
transparent and public, because this is a not-for-profit organization
and you might have discussed this in the past but it's really
important to get this transparency, because anyone running for this
seat should be proud to be running for this place and have no open
conflict of interest that the community can see for themselves.  Thank
you.

>>GEORGE SADOWSKY:  Thank you, Desiree.

>>DESIREE MILOSHEVIC: Is this a no or yes?  Will you consider it?

>>GEORGE SADOWSKY:  The board will -- the committee and the board will
consider everything that is said in this room at this time, and will
consider everything that is submitted by e-mail to us.  We'll even
stop and listen to you in the hallway.

>>DESIREE MILOSHEVIC: Thank you.

>>RON ANDRUFF: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.  Ron Andruff, also a member of
the business constituency but speaking personally.

I also commend the fact that we have a committee and it's talking to
the community.  It's really, really helpful and we're -- I think
everyone in this room and all of the community is very grateful to
have this exchange because we haven't had it in the past so thank you
for that.

I wanted to echo the comments of the salaries being pegged to
performance.

In fact, salary levels within ICANN have been a part of a hot debate
over the years, and many have felt that the salaries might be a little
on the high level.  Others have felt the staff is so burdened they
deserve them.

And that's all well and good, but we understand with the last go-round
with the CEO, things like the toolkit, which was a very important part
for the various constituencies to do various things weren't possible
because there were overruns with salary levels that went out to the
previous CEO or the current CEO.

So I think it's really important that when you're establishing the pay
threshold, that it's performance-based, and if the individual that
joins us and leads us earns two or three or four million dollars, all
well and good, if, in fact, we're hitting marks, benchmarks, that move
the organization forward.  Thank you very much.

>>GEORGE SADOWSKY:  Thank you.  Werner?

>>WERNER STAUB:  Werner Staub from CORE but right now speaking in a
personal capacity.

It may be inspired by the fact that I don't know the president, the
name of the president of my country, which is Switzerland, which is
usual.  And it is related to the fact that we have term limits, even
for the president of the country, and they're very short.  They can
repeat but it's actually only one year only.  Now, as it changes
quickly, people don't necessarily remember, but it does actually work.

And if we look at the problem that we have had in ICANN, ICANN has,
over time, always become much too strongly dependent on a CEO.  It
wasn't actually bad if you had a change, even if you had a good
person.

So should we really go and try to find superman or superwoman or
rather a capable person that can be replaced and actually is going to
be good at making herself or himself replaceable?  That is probably
the focus that we should look for, not the superperson, but also with
a limit.  Probably also at a much lower salary.  Maybe not more than
the President of the United States could be a threshold.

But about performance, if they again -- a post, like a political post,
what kind of performance?  That is really difficult to understand.  I
mean, if you're able to give performance pay to a president of a
central bank or of a country, is it about the inflation rate or is it
about the number of wars?  This makes no sense.  So I think we should
definitely abandon performance pay as a rule for the CEO.  Rather, try
to make sure we can permanently groom a number of potential successors
at all times.

>>GEORGE SADOWSKY:  Okay.  Thank you.  I hope we can focus on the
characteristics of the CEO here.  Next.

>>KHALED FATTAL: Thank you, George.  Khaled Fattal, multilingual
Internet group.  I'm group chairman.

Two thoughts come to mind and I would like to conclude them with
recommendations to the search criteria, so at least you have something
that you can take with you to consider and then perhaps either
implement or not.

In -- first of all, looking at the criteria that you have described so
far, I would like to consider it as a starting blueprint that's a work
in progress, and I think if that's the case, I think that's very
encouraging.

One fundamental point that I think is -- that ICANN is engaging in,
which will change the structure and the -- the Internet as we know it
very shortly, is the new gTLDs and IDN gTLDs.

So bearing in mind that we are already, with the Affirmation of
Commitments and the role of ICANN is serving the global public
interest, what I would urge and recommend is that the committee factor
into the search criteria on that component not only the public
interest, but always using the term "global public interest."

So I would make this as a formal recommendation.  That's one.

Secondly, when it comes to the new gTLDs and the possibility of the
right candidate that can serve, one of the key components that I think
we need to look at is the transparency that will not hinder us but
will allow us to actually free the space.

So conflicts of interest are significantly important to be not just
minimized, to be taken out of the equation.  So what I would recommend
on that space as well, knowing that the new gTLDs are going to be
touching virtually everybody, the committee and the board should
address to what level of nonconflict of interest should the new
president come in in their involvement in the new gTLDs and that would
help make sure that in the future, whatever is going to be addressed
is very transparent and would not hinder the future of the
multistakeholder process that we all believe in.  Thank you very much.

>>GEORGE SADOWSKY:  Okay.  Thank you.  Sebastien?

>>SEBASTIEN BACHOLLET:  Yes.  I am board member but I am -- I don't
know even if I talk on my behalf, but I will try.  And I take this
because another board member made a comment this morning -- this
afternoon and then I think I can do that also.

My belief is that the next CEO can come from anywhere, and the goal is
to find good people -- a good person.  It's not to find the sheep with
five legs, like we say in French.

It's not to find the superman or the superwoman.  We need somebody who
will run the organization effectively under the guidance of the board.

And my second point is that we need to have somebody who is keen to
help this organization to become more and more at the service -- the
staff must be at the service of the volunteers of this organization,
because they are our heart, they are doing the real work, and they
need support.

And not a reverse.

We have very good specialists in this community who are keen to spend
time to participate through our group, through a discussion, through
anything we have to do, and we need to have the tools to support them
and staff must be the first tool to support our community.  Thank you.

>>GEORGE SADOWSKY:  Thank you.

>>JEFF BRUEGGEMAN:  Thanks.  Jeff Brueggeman with AT&T speaking for
ICC today and thank you for the opportunity to engage with you on this
important issue and we applaud the transparent process that this --
this selection process is being undertaken, and we hope that that
continues.

That transparency and communication is a very valuable part of the
selection process and we are happy to see that it's getting off to
such a strong start.

As far as the selection criteria, we also think that is a very worthy
way to approach this issue.  That's how businesses approach these
types of things, and I think particularly given the fact that ICANN
has many unique aspects to it, and we're at this critical juncture,
both with the new gTLD program being launched, the importance of the
internal work here, as well as the broader challenges of Internet
governance right now, we really need someone who is going to be well-
positioned on that front.

So the selection criteria becomes an important benchmark for looking
maybe not at balancing, but at a combination of attributes that are
going to be the most effective, and I would highlight three of them
which have really been talked about already today.

One is strong operational capabilities and competency to manage the
organization.  That's obviously going to be particularly important
over the next few years.

But second it has really been emphasized today is an understanding of
the organization, a willingness to engage in the bottom-up process and
the consensus building that is such a fundamental part of ICANN is
going to be extremely important.  And then, again, we would add that
understanding and supporting ICANN's role in the broader Internet
governance landscape and being able to communicate with key actors
throughout -- throughout that landscape, including civil society,
business, the technical community, and governments, is going to be
very important.

So we support the identification of these selection criteria as a way
to guide the process, and we look forward to continued participation.
Thank you.

>>GEORGE SADOWSKY:  Thank you, Jeff.

>>JONATHON ZUCK:  Yes, Hello.  Jonathon Zuck for the Association for
Competitive Technology.  I am probably not going to make any friends
with this intervention.

I think this is a very aspirational list of criteria for a CEO and I
think sort of fantastic in its reach.  But I think the number one
problem with this organization is that it operates like it is a
monopoly.  While it enjoys some institutional protections, it is not a
monopoly.  It serves sort of at the confidence of government and of
the community that it serves.  And I think the best way to build the
confidence, which is mentioned interestingly enough in a different
place than leadership and management in your slides, is to get the
house in order.  This organization is at a point of transition.  It is
at a crossroads in an incredibly critical time.  And it needs to
define its mission more narrowly, and it needs to really nail it.  And
that is the number one thing that needs to happen here.  A lot of this
stuff is so aspirational that it is great for future thoughts about a
CEO, but the leadership and management skills to turn this
organization around and start running it, I think, has got to be the
number one criteria for a new CEO.

This organization is badly run, and it needs to be run better.  That's
my one -- number one criteria.  Thank you.

>>GEORGE SADOWSKY:  Thank you.

>> ROELOF MEIJER:  Thank you, George.  Roelof Meijer from SIDN, the
registry.  The previous speaker has covered about 90% of what I wanted
to say.  I think one of the most important criteria is the proven
experience of rapidly improving the quality, the performance of the
organization of the size of ICANN.

>>CHRIS DISSPAIN:  Roelof, can I ask you a question.  May I ask you a
question, please?  Would you be prepared -- We are taking written
input.  Would you be prepared to send us a note of -- some specifics
of what you think that means?

>>ROELOF MEIJER:  Yep.

>>CHRIS DISSPAIN:  Jonathon can do that, too, if he'd like.

>>ROELOF MEIJER:  For a short note, it would be efficiency,
effectiveness, customer satisfaction, quality of the output.  And
customer satisfaction, of course, is trust --

>>CHRIS DISSPAIN:  Yeah.

>>ROELOF MEIJER: -- of the stakeholders.  I will put it in writing.

>>CHRIS DISSPAIN:  A little bit more detail would be great.  Thanks.

>>ROELOF MEIJER:  Yes, sir.

>>GEORGE SADOWSKY:  Next?

>>ELLIOT NOSS:  Go to Janice.  I feel I should defer to something from
the floor.

>>JANICE LANGE:  How kind.  Thank you very much.  Janice Lange
speaking on behalf of Roland Perry.  Is there a criteria to have
attended at least one ICANN meeting before Dakar?  And if you will
indulge me on this same note, IS Martin Levy, does the next CEO need
to be an American?

>>GEORGE SADOWSKY:  Let me answer the second.  ICANN is a corporation
headquartered in the State of California and, therefore, is
responsible for complying with United States law.  United States law
requires that hiring decisions be made on the basis -- not on the
basis of national origin, religion, nationality and few other things.
We're going to follow United States law.

>>STEVE CROCKER:  I think that translates into no.

>> ELLIOT NOSS:  Elliot Noss, Tucows.  I want to repeat a comment I
made in the last search process, and I haven't heard it made anywhere
in the lengthy list of materials.  Before I do, I want to reinforce
what Sebastien said which, I think, cannot be stressed enough, which
is hire a person, not a set of qualities.  That has been the
difference in our business from hiring poorly and hiring well.

The one quality that I want to call out that I think for this role
really has to be present is a love and understanding of the Internet,
and that to me is separate from understanding culturally the
multistakeholder model, from being able to relate to all of the
various constituencies.

There is a specific subject matter here, not everybody gets it.  But
when somebody gets it, they will be significantly better at this job.
Thank you.

>>GEORGE SADOWSKY:  Thank you, Elliot.

>>BRET FAUSETT:  Bret Fausett.  I throw this comment out here.  I
truly have no opinion on it.  It has always struck me as odd that
through four CEOs now we have never had a resident CEO in any of the
offices.  We have had an office in Portola Valley.  We have had an
office in Palm Springs.  We have had an office in Sydney.  And now we
have opened an office in Palo Alto.  And I wonder if the organization
has now gotten to a certain size where you actually need someone on
the ground.

And, you know, I think Brussels and Marina del Rey are lovely places.
I would think it would be fairly easy to recruit someone at the
salaries you're paying to one of these world-class cities.

>>GEORGE SADOWSKY:  Thank you.  It is an issue which the committee is
discussing.  We have not come to a closure on it yet.  And so I'm
sorry I can't say more about it.

>> BARRY SHEIN:  Hi.  I'm Barry Shein.  I'm President of the world.

[ Applause ]

The question that occurred to me, listening to all this -- And I
apologize in advance if this is well-trod ground.  Has anyone on the
board considered splitting this into two or more jobs?  I think if I
was interviewing for this job, I would ask the board that,
particularly an inward-looking operational person, president-type
person versus a CEO, outwards-looking, relations person.  I'm just
curious:  Has this ever come up -- it should come up, if you want me
to make a declarative and not ask questions.  I think it should be an
issue.

>>GEORGE SADOWSKY:  Thank you for that.

>> BARRY SHEIN:  Thank you.

>>CHRIS DISSPAIN:  Of course, it would mean the CEO would be able to
work 24 hours a day rather than simply 20.

>>GEORGE SADOWSKY:  Janice.

>>JANICE LANGE:  For Kieren McCarthy, dot Nxt.  I think the ideal CEO
would be someone who is not a frontman but a very effective manager
and delegator and someone who generally understands and values
community input.  A CEO says that he will move budget and resources
towards real, effective participation and assists community members,
and that is the kind of person ICANN needs.

>>GEORGE SADOWSKY:  Thank you, Kieren, for the positive statement.

Anybody else?  Yes?

>> TITILAYO AKINSANMI:  Hello.  Name is Titi, for the record.  I wear
many hats, but I choose not to wear any of them as I make this
contribution.  Specifically I'm speaking as someone who very much
believes in the Internet ecosystem.  A criteria that I would like you
to take a look at or to consider is one of whoever the individual is,
whether it is a multiplicity of roles or one person, is their track
record for sustainability, sustainability specifically around the
leadership role, around the way they have managed whether it is a non-
profit, a private sector organization before.  What kind of track
record do they have in terms of being able to leave a space in a way
that somebody else can step into the shoes and run with it?

Again, we've had a lot of CEOs in ICANN.  That has pluses.  It has its
minuses.  A major thing is:  How much of a leadership role has that
person played in being able to hand over to other people in a positive
way.  Thank you.

>>GEORGE SADOWSKY:  That's a very interesting point.  Thank you very
much for that.

>> NAOMASA MARUYAMA:  My name is Naomasa Maruyama from Japan.  There
is a number of criteria in the presentation.  But one attracted me is
"able to listen and act on the board's guidance."  And this is the
one, I think, the most important.

To look at the past several CEOs, I'm a little bit sometimes shocked
because some CEOs are not on guidance of the board, rather than
showing up himself.  And I think this should not be happening in the
future.

The very important thing is that the board is, by definition,
representing the opinion of the community.  And that is more simple
that the CEO should follow.  This is my short comment.

>>GEORGE SADOWSKY:  Thank you very much.  Any other comments from the
floor?  I think we've seen quite a range of opinions.  Oh, sorry, is
there one?  Janice.

>>JANICE LANGE:  The chatroom commented you took the second question
on the CEO, but they wonder if you could answer the first about having
to attend at least one meeting since Dakar.

>>GEORGE SADOWSKY:  I'm sorry.  What was the question?

>>JANICE LANGE:  Was part of the criteria going to be that the
applicant would had to have attended one meeting, counting Dakar,
starting here?

>>GEORGE SADOWSKY:  That's really difficult to answer.  I would not
want to try to hazard a guess.  It would be my own opinion, and I
would want to confer with the committee.

I would say that Jeff Brueggeman brought up a very good point.  He
said he valued the work of this committee in terms of engagement with
the community.  I think it is a good thing, too.  I'm glad we're doing
it.  And I'm hoping we can continue to do it to the extent that we can
share public information, or information that can be made public, and
at the same time maintain the confidentiality of those things which
are inherently confidential in a search process.  So we will try to
maintain this transparency.

And we hope that you will, if you feel that we are not doing it --
this is not a shy audience or group -- we hope that you will tell us.

Now, this is your first chance to tell us what you feel about the CEO.

I'm sorry.  Oh, Mike.  Yeah?

>>MIKE SILBER:  Thank you, George.  Mike Silber.  Just to push back
slightly at some of the questions that are coming up because it seems
some in the audience are missing the point over here.

I think the point is not will it be a criteria if somebody has
attended at least one ICANN meeting, whether starting in the first one
in Singapore, the original Singapore meeting, or somewhere else.  I
think the question is:  Do you think it should be a criterion?  And if
you do, please explain why and if you think it should not be.  And,
similarly, if somebody should or should not be an American, by which I
assume North American or citizen of the United States, I'm not
entirely sure.

But I would really like to hear people say why they're asking these
questions instead of asking sometimes relatively inane questions to a
panel who is trying to get further input.

As Sebastien has pointed out -- and I think it is quite useful -- we
have got criteria that amounts essentially to a five-legged sheep up
there.  They are fantastic.  I think all of them are relevant.

If people think something is missing or feel the emphasis needs to be
placed elsewhere, then that's the input we're looking for.  Not asking
questions, you know, does the person have to have attended a meeting?
If you're considering applying, then my suggestion is attend a meeting
and then apply.  We won't disqualify you if you intend on applying and
you haven't attended a meeting yet.

>>GEORGE SADOWSKY:  Thank you for that, Mike.

It's true.  We want your concerns about what's important here, what we
should be looking for.  I suppose -- I think we probably don't want
comments about previous issues unless they bear directly upon the
selection of positive criteria for the new CEO.

Now, you have a chance to respond to Mike's excellent intervention by
forming your thoughts and writing to ceosearch2012@icann.org by
November 15th.  We look for comments from anyone, anyone, in the
community, outside the community, et cetera.

Any more comments by anyone?  Katim?

>>KATIM TOURAY:  Good afternoon, everyone.  Thanks very much, George,
and your team for leading us on this very important work.  My
suggestion is that I think we should also have in the requirements
sheet that at least we -- And this is very delicate.  I'm trying to
say how best I can really put this, because what I would like to see
is that we insist on having a CEO who even if the person is not --
doesn't have experience in working with the developing world, that
person has to have the potential or the ability to work with them in
the future because I, frankly, would hate to see us have a CEO that
would ask me really dumb questions, you know?

I mean, I would expect us to have somebody who, even though I don't
expect them to know the President of -- each and every President of
all the countries in the Asian region, for instance, or southeast Asia
or Africa for the matter, at least to have the sensitivity and the
sensibility I think is a better word actually to make me feel that,
yes, this guy, this person, this lady, might not necessarily come with
a professional background of working with the developing world but has
the sensibility to work with people and organizations and governments
and businesses in those areas.  I think it is going to be really
important to get that on board.

I say this even though I have seen some international requirements,
but not all countries are treated the same.  And I think we need to
take this extra step to have this distinction in there.  Thank you.

>>GEORGE SADOWSKY:  Thank you, Katim.  That's an important point.  And
I would put it under the rubric of international -- being an
international citizen, and I would not include people whose
international travels are limited to traveling to the Caribbean in the
wintertime.

Okay.  The queue is closed.  Marilyn is last.

>>MARILYN CADE:  Thank you.  This is my first opportunity to take the
microphone at the ICANN meeting.  My name is Marilyn Cade.

[ Applause ]

It won't be my last, hopefully, but it is a much appreciated
opportunity.  I join with others who have thanked the board members
for joining this important committee and for creating, I think, a very
valuable opportunity.

It will not be possible throughout the process to come back to the
full community at all times.  There is a longstanding, well-known
process that is used in business, and I think in other organizations
now, called 360 review.  It is something we have long needed at ICANN.
And I think you could consider inviting the chairs and designees of
the SGs, constituencies, advisory committees to each identify a number
of people to be available to you at a couple of stages so that you can
take general feedback, not specific feedback.  You can do that in the
process as you lead up to selecting the CEO, but I think it's
something you should continue afterward as well.  And such a group
would be able to continue to provide 360 feedback both on the board
and also on the CEO on a continual basis.

360 feedback is input.  I think it might be useful to us on an ongoing
basis.

>>GEORGE SADOWSKY:  Good suggestion.  And I would ask for more detail
in whatever you submit via e-mail to the committee.  Thank you.

No one else.  We've heard a lot of good input here.  We'll take it
seriously.  E-mail us.  Let us know what you think.  We'll try to be
as transparent as possible in reporting progress to you and in coming
back to you, should we require specific information from any of you.
Thank you very much.