ICANN|ARCHIVES

Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers

>>SUSAN CRAWFORD: HELLO, WE'RE GOING TO START IN A FEW MINUTES.

IF I COULD URGE PEOPLE SITTING IN THE BACK FAR REACHES OF THE ROOM TO MOVE UP TO THE FIRST FEW ROWS, THAT WOULD BE GREAT.

THANKS.

SO THIS IS OUR META MEETING, OUR MEETING ON MEETINGS.

AND I WANT TO URGE PEOPLE SITTING IN THE BACK TO COME INTO THE FRONT, BECAUSE THE WHOLE POINT IS TO GET AS MUCH INTERACTION FROM PEOPLE WHO ARE HERE AND CARE ABOUT THIS TOPIC AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE.

THIS MEETING IS ALSO BE WEBCAST, AND THE SCRIBES ARE HARD AT WORK.

SO IT WOULD BE GREAT TO GIVE AS MUCH INPUT HERE AS POSSIBLE.

MY NAME IS SUSAN CRAWFORD, AND I AM A MEMBER OF THE ICANN BOARD, AND I'M A MEMBER OF THE BOARD'S MEETINGS COMMITTEE.

THERE ARE ABOUT FIVE OF US ON THE COMMITTEE.

AND OUR JOB IS TO THINK ABOUT PLACES WHERE ICANN WILL MEET, WATCH OVER THE PROCESS, AND, IN GENERAL, SORT OF CONCERN OURSELVES WITH COMMUNICATIONS AND MEETINGS ISSUES.

I'M A RELATIVELY NEW BOARD MEMBER.

I'VE ONLY BEEN ON THE BOARD FOR A YEAR.

I'VE BEEN COMING TO ICANN MEETINGS FOR A WHILE, SO THIS IS AN ISSUE OF PARTICULAR INTEREST TO ME, HOW THESE MEETINGS RUN.

ICANN'S STRATEGIC PLAN THAT WE'RE ALL LOOKING AT THIS WEEK TALKS A LOT ABOUT EXCELLENCE IN OPERATIONS, EXCELLENCE IN POLICY DEVELOPMENT.

THIS MEETING IS DEVOTED TO EXCELLENCE IN MEETINGS.

WE HAVE QUITE COMPLEX MEETINGS INVOLVING LOTS OF STAKEHOLDERS, LOTS OF ISSUES.

MEETINGS TAKE PLACE FOR MANY DIFFERENT REASONS.

YOU ALL HAVE DIFFERENT REASONS TO BE HERE.

SOME OF YOU COME TO NETWORK, IT'S LIKE A TRADE SHOW FOR YOU.

SOME OF YOU COME TO WORK ON POLICY DEVELOPMENT.

OTHERS COME OUT OF CURIOSITY, ACADEMIC OR OTHERWISE.

SO LOTS OF DIFFERENT GOALS GOING INTO THESE MEETINGS.

THE PURPOSE OF ICANN AS A FORUM IS TO DEVELOP POLICY ON NAMES AND ADDRESSES.

SO ONE OF THE QUESTIONS POSED FOR THIS META MEETING, THIS MEETING ABOUT MEETINGS, IS WHETHER WE'RE MEETING THAT PURPOSE ADEQUATELY.

SO WE HAVE A MULTISTAKEHOLDER MODEL.

WE ALL KNOW ABOUT THAT.

WE NEED CONSTRUCTIVE ENGAGEMENT, AND THESE FACE-TO-FACE MEETINGS ARE A VERY IMPORTANT PART OF THAT ENGAGEMENT.

I DRAFTED A SHORT PAPER THAT YOU CAN LOOK AT ONLINE IF YOU HAVEN'T HAD A CHANCE TO ALREADY, THAT TRIES TO FOCUS ON THE TOPICS OF TODAY'S WORKSHOP.

THE PAPER IS SOMETHING WE MIGHT CALL, AS A U.S. LAWYER, WHICH IS WHAT I AM, WE MIGHT CALL IT A WHITE PAPER.

TRIES TO LAY OUT THE LANDSCAPE, PROVIDE SOME BACKGROUND, AND SUGGEST DIFFERENT OPTIONS FOR THINKING ABOUT MEETINGS.

THIS IS A VERY PRELIMINARY PROCESS.

THIS PAPER, MY BEING HERE, THIS MEETING, IS ALL JUST AN ATTEMPT TO GATHER INFORMATION TO THINK ABOUT WHETHER WE SHOULD TAKE ANY STEPS TO CHANGE THE WAY MEETINGS ARE.

SO TAKE A LOOK AT THE PAPER, IF YOU'RE ONLINE.

IT'S ON THE REMOTE PARTICIPATION SITE.

IT'S ON THE ICANNWIKI.ORG.

AND IT'S ON MY BLOG.

IT'S IN A NUMBER OF PLACES.

IS THERE A QUESTION?

NO.

OKAY.

ALL RIGHT.

SO I HAVE A FEW GOALS FOR THIS AN HOUR AND A HALF WE HAVE TOGETHER.

INPUT ON THE VARIOUS OPTIONS SUGGESTED IN THE PAPER, YOUR IDEAS ABOUT OTHER THINGS WE SHOULD BE THINKING ABOUT IN CONNECTION WITH MEETINGS.

AND THE GOAL AT THE END OF THIS WHOLE PROCESS IS TO HAVE SOME SHARED SENSE OF PRIORITIES FOR THE IN-PERSON MEETINGS THAT ICANN HOLDS.

I'M NOT SURE WHETHER THAT'S POSSIBLE.

BUT THAT'S ONE OF MY GOALS FOR THIS SESSION.

THE PAPER AND THIS DISCUSSION ARE DIVIDED UP INTO FIVE DIFFERENT TOPICS: COMMUNICATIONS, MEETINGS PROTOCOL, BY WHICH I MEAN EXPECTATIONS OF BEHAVIOR AT MEETINGS; MEETINGS STRUCTURE; MEETINGS LOCATION; AND NUMBER OF MEETINGS.

RIGHT NOW, ICANN HAS THREE LARGE MEETINGS A YEAR IN DIFFERENT REGIONS OF THE WORLD.

WE CIRCULATE.

AND THESE MEETINGS NOW ATTRACT UP TO 800 PARTICIPANTS.

THEY'RE QUITE LARGE.

AND PEOPLE COME FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD TO ATTEND.

NOW, IN CONNECTION WITH SETTING UP THIS MEETING, WE SET UP A QUESTIONNAIRE AND ASKED YOU TO LET US KNOW WHAT YOU THOUGHT ABOUT MEETINGS.

THE FIRST TOPIC WAS, SO WHAT'S GOING WELL?

WHAT DO YOU LIKE?

WE GOT LOTS OF POSITIVE REMARKS.

BEING -- WE LIKE THAT YOU'RE BEING MORE OPEN WITH MAKE STAKEHOLDERS ACTIVITIES.

SLOW, BUT GRADUAL REPRESENTATION OF THE MAJORITY WHO ARE NOT FULLY REPRESENTED.

THE SCRIBES COME IN FOR UNIVERSAL ACCLAIM.

THEY ARE JUST GREAT, THEY ALWAYS DO A WONDERFUL JOB.

[ APPLAUSE ]

>>SUSAN CRAWFORD: YEA!

THE HEALTHY CULTURE OF DEBATE.

SEVERAL PEOPLE SAID THEY VERY MUCH APPRECIATE THE CHANCE TO STAND UP AT A MIKE AND SAY SOMETHING AND BE HEARD, TRANSCRIBED, WATCHED AROUND THE WORLD, HAVE AN IMPACT ON POLICY DEVELOPMENT.

ANOTHER VERY POSITIVE THING ABOUT THESE MEETINGS IS THE HALLWAY CONVERSATIONS, THE NETWORKING, THE CHANCE TO SEE FRIENDS IN THE INDUSTRY.

THAT'S VERY POSITIVE.

ICANN'S MEETING COORDINATORS COME IN FOR A LOT OF PRAISE.

CONSTITUENCY DAY, WHICH WAS YESTERDAY, SEEMS TO BE VERY WELL HANDLED, WITH EVERY CONSTITUENCY HAVING A PLACE TO BE AND SORT OF AN ATMOSPHERE CONDUCIVE TO GETTING WORK DONE.

REGISTRATION, WHICH IS HANDLED BY THE LOCAL HOST, ALWAYS SEEMS TO RUN VERY WELL.

I GOT A COUPLE OF COMMENTS SAYING IT RUNS VERY WELL.

SO I THINK THAT SEEMS LIKE A POSITIVE REMARK.

A NEW DEVELOPMENT FOR THIS MEETING, WHICH I HOPE YOU'VE ALL LOOKED AT, AND GO ONLINE IF YOU GET A CHANCE, GO SEE IT, IS A REMOTE PARTICIPATION SITE SET UP FOR ICANN BY KIEREN MCCARTHY AT SP.ICANN.ORG.

VERY EASY TO USE.

HAS FULL SCHEDULES AVAILABLE, VERY EASY TO CLICK INTO A CHAT ROOM AND SEE WHAT'S GOING ON INSIDE A MEETING, CHAT WITH OTHER PEOPLE.

OPEN BLOGGING, VERY EASY TO REGISTER FOR A BLOG, START POSTING YOUR COMMENTS.

ICANN STAFF HAVE BEEN LIBERALLY POSTING ON THAT BLOG.

SO VERY POSITIVE DEVELOPMENT.

AND I WANT TO SINGLE OUT PAUL LEVINS HERE, THE NEW COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR FOR ICANN, WHO'S DONE A WONDERFUL JOB SETTING IT UP.

THERE HE IS.

AND THAT COMES IN FOR PRAISE.

OKAY.

THE WAY I'D LIKE TO RUN THIS FOR EACH ONE OF THESE FIVE SEGMENTS IS TO GIVE YOU A SENSE OF SOME OF THE COMMENTS THAT CAME IN IN RESPONSE TO THE WHITE PAPER AND THEN ASK FOR RESPONSES.

I HAVE GOT THIS MIKE.

I'M GOING TO BE PHIL DONOHUE OR OPERAH AND TRY TO FIND PEOPLE TO TALK ABOUT THESE TOPICS.

WE'RE GOING TO DO EACH TOPIC ONE AT A TIME.

THE FIRST IS COMMUNICATIONS.

HERE'S A LIST OF SOME OF THE COMMENTS THAT CAME IN OVER THE TRANSOM ABOUT TOPICS IN CONNECTION WITH ICANN MEETINGS.

SOME COMPLAINTS ABOUT THE WEBCAST, SOME PEOPLE SAYING IT'S MORE IMPORTANT TO GET AUDIO AND THE WEBCAST ISN'T WORKING WELL ALL THE TIME, ALTHOUGH THE INTERNET CONNECTIVITY FOR THIS MEETING HAS BEEN EXTRAORDINARY.

RIGHT?

YEA!

REALLY WORKING WELL.

BETTER LOCAL PUBLICITY FOR EVENTS, SUGGESTION ALONG THOSE LINES.

I GOT THIS COMMENT FROM SEVERAL PEOPLE.

WOULDN'T IT BE GOOD TO PRODUCE MATERIAL FOR LOCAL END USERS SO THAT WHEN WE MEET IN A PARTICULAR LOCATION, WE EXPLAIN TO PEOPLE WHAT THESE ACRONYMS MEAN, WHAT WE'RE DOING AT ICANN, AND THE JOB IS.

BETTER PUBLICITY FOR THE PRESS CONFERENCES THAT ARE HELD BY ICANN.

I GOT THAT COMMENT FROM ONE PERSON.

ARE THERE AFRICAN JOURNALISTS WHO AREN'T BEING INVITED, ARE THERE BLOGGERS?

HOW DO THOSE PRESS CONFERENCES GET SET UP?

THIS IS AN INTERESTING SUGGESTION.

WHILE THE BOARD IS AT ONE OF THESE LAST MEETINGS, WOULD IT MAKE SENSE TO HAVE AN OUTREACH DAY?

WHERE BOARD MEMBERS GO TO A LOCAL UNIVERSITY AND SIT AND TALK ABOUT ICANN AND ANY OTHER QUESTIONS PEOPLE HAVE.

NOT ONLY THE BOARD.

>> (INAUDIBLE).

>>SUSAN CRAWFORD: THIS IS VANDA SCARTEZINI, BOARD MEMBER.

>>VANDA SCARTEZINI: NOT ONLY THE UNIVERSITIES, BUT MOSTLY THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY, BECAUSE MOSTLY THEY DON'T KNOW HOW IS THE MARKETPLACE, BECAUSE, FOR INSTANCE, MOSTLY DEVELOPING COUNTRIES, THE CCTLDS IS A MUST.

EVERYBODY'S UNDER THE CCTLDS.

SO NOBODY KNOWS THE OTHER MARKET.

>>SUSAN CRAWFORD: OKAY.

SO OUTREACH IN CONNECTION WITH THESE LOCAL MEETINGS, WE COULD BE DOING A BETTER JOB ON.

GOOD COMMENT THERE.

AND THE IDEA OF A BROAD FAQ ON THE SITE AND AVAILABLE IS ANOTHER COMMUNICATIONS COMMENT.

I'M NOT GOING TO REPRESENT THAT THESE COMMENTS ARE STATISTICALLY SIGNIFICANT IN ANY WAY.

THEY'RE JUST THE THINGS THAT -- YOU KNOW, THEY CAME IN IN RESPONSE TO THIS QUESTIONNAIRE.

SO I WANT TO TELL YOU ABOUT THEM.

SOME MORE COMMENTS ON COMMUNICATIONS.

A LOT OF CONCERN ABOUT WANTING GREATER ONLINE INTERACTION THROUGH THE SITE, THROUGH THE MAIN ICANN.ORG SITE AND OTHERWISE, TRANSLATION OBVIOUSLY A KEY ISSUE, WANTING MEETINGS TO BE AVAILABLE IN TRANSLATED FORM.

IT'S VERY HARD FOR NON-ENGLISH-SPEAKERS TO SPEND THE DAY LISTENING TO A LOT OF ENGLISH, A LOT OF CONCENTRATION ALL DAY.

GENERAL COMMENTS ABOUT THE POSTING OF AGENDAS AND MINUTES AND PUBLIC ACCESS TO BOARD INFORMATION, MORE DIALOGUE AT MEETINGS, AND REMOTE PARTICIPATION ISSUES.

SO, YES, PLEASE INTRODUCE YOURSELF AND THEN TELL US WHAT YOU'D LIKE TO SAY.

>> I'M BERTRAND DE LA CHAPELLE FROM FRENCH FOREIGN MINISTRY.

JUST A FEW -- TWO COMMENTS.

ONE, IT'S NOT SO MUCH THE AGENDA IN TERMS OF THE SESSION FROM THIS CONSTITUENCY OR SO, BUT AN AGENDA THAT SAYS THIS MEETING OF THE CONSTITUENCY WILL ADDRESS THIS ISSUE.

IF FACILITATES FOR PLANNING IN ADVANCE.

AND THE SECOND ELEMENT IN TERMS OF COMMUNICATION, THERE'S, OF COURSE, COMMUNICATION AFTERWARDS.

BUT THERE'S ALSO SOME COMMUNICATION BEFORE, PARTICULARLY WHERE AN ISSUE IS GOING TO BE ADDRESSED DURING THE MEETING, SOME SORT OF SYNTHESIS.

I KNOW IT'S A BIG PROBLEM OF WHO ESTABLISHES THE SYNTHESIS.

BUT WHEN THERE ARE WORKING GROUPS, WHEN THERE ARE ISSUES THAT HAVE BEEN ONGOING, IT'S PROBABLY USEFUL FOR PEOPLE WHO COME AT A MEETING THAT HAVE FOLLOWED OTHER ISSUES TO HAVE A QUICK REMINDER OF THE MAIN ELEMENTS AND THE OTHER ASPECTS.

>>SUSAN CRAWFORD: GREAT.

A COUPLE OF POINTS THERE.

ONE IS TO NOT ONLY HAVE AN AGENDA FOR THE SPECIFIC CONSTITUENCY MEETING WE'RE HAVING, BUT TO HAVE A SENSE OF THE CROSS-CUTTING ISSUES THAT WILL BE DISCUSSED AT ANY PARTICULAR MEETING.

AND THEN AFTERWARDS, A SYNTHESIS OF WHAT CAME OUT FROM A PARTICULAR MEETING, AGAIN, TO FACILITATE TO MAKE IT EASIER FOR PEOPLE TO PARTICIPATE REMOTELY.

YES, PLEASE INTRODUCE YOURSELF.

>>MARILYN CADE: MY NAME IS MARILYN CADE.

A QUESTION ABOUT ONE OF THE POINTS MADE EARLIER.

IT -- THERE WAS A SUGGESTION THAT THE BOARD HAVE A MEETING, AND VANDA SUGGESTED -- A CLARIFICATION OF IT.

WHAT I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND CLEARLY WAS, IF THE BOARD IS PHYSICALLY THERE, WHY -- ISN'T IT BETTER FOR US TO BE BRINGING -- UNDERTAKING WAYS TO BRING MORE PEOPLE INTO THE BROADER ICANN MEETING SO THAT THERE IS CROSS-COMMUNICATION AND THE ABILITY TO DEVELOP RELATIONSHIPS NOT ONLY WITH THE BOARD, AS WONDERFUL AS OUR BOARD IS, BUT THE BROADER COMMUNITY WHO MAY THEN BE ABLE TO CONTINUE TO FOLLOW UP AND INTERACT WITH THE LOCAL COMMUNITY, EVEN AFTER WE ALL MOVE ON IN OUR ONGOING CARAVAN?

>>SUSAN CRAWFORD: WELL, THIS IS A WONDERFUL SUGGESTION AND ONE THAT'S BEEN MADE TO ME BY A FEW PEOPLE, THAT EACH ICANN MEETING SHOULD LEAVE A FOOTPRINT OF SOME KIND, SOME PEOPLE THAT DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT ICANN BEFORE WHO COME TO ONE OF THESE MEETINGS AND THEN SORT OF BECOME INTERESTED AND INVOLVED AND STICK WITH IT, EITHER REMOTELY OR IN PERSON FOR YEARS TO COME.

THAT MAY BE HAPPENING, PROBABLY IS.

BUT A MORE CONCERTED EFFORT TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT FOOTPRINT HAPPENS WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA.

YES, PLEASE INTRODUCE YOURSELF.

>> STEVE METALITZ: THIS IS STEVE METALITZ.

I JUST WANT TO PICK UP ON THAT LAST POINT.

YOU SAID IT PROBABLY IS HAPPENING OR IT MAY BE HAPPENING.

IT STRIKES ME THAT THE JUSTIFICATION THAT MEETING IN DIFFERENT REGIONS SEQUENTIALLY AND SOMETIMES IN PLACES THAT ARE DISTANT FROM AIRLINE HUBS AND SO FORTH IMPOSES A LOT OF COSTS ON THE ORGANIZATION AND ON PARTICIPANTS.

THOSE COSTS ARE JUSTIFIED IF THERE IS THAT TYPE OF FOOTPRINT.

SO IT JUST STRIKES ME THAT IT -- DO WE -- HAVE WE EVER SET ANY KIND OF TEMPLATE ABOUT WHAT WE EXPECT TO SEE HAPPENING?

FOR EXAMPLE, THREE YEARS AGO, WE MET IN SOUTH AFRICA, MALAYSIA, AND -- I'M NOT SURE WHAT THE THIRD COUNTRY WAS -- ITALY, I THINK.

MAYBE I HAVE THE YEARS WRONG.

BUT DO WE HAVE -- DID WE HAVE ANY GOALS ABOUT HOW MANY NEW PARTICIPANTS WE WOULD HAVE FROM SOUTH AFRICA, MALAYSIA, AND ITALY, AND DID WE MEET THOSE GOALS?

SO UNLESS WE ARE SETTING SOME GOALS AND SEEING IF WE MEET THEM, I'M NOT SURE THAT THE COSTS OF MEETING IN A DIFFERENT PLACE EVERY TIME ARE REALLY JUSTIFIED.

>>SUSAN CRAWFORD: OKAY, TRAFFIC.

YES, MARILYN IS BACK OF THE QUEUE.

GOT ANOTHER MIKE.

OKAY.

LET'S GO OVER TO AMADEU NEXT.

WE'RE GOING TO STICK WITH COMMUNICATIONS FOR A FEW MORE MINUTES, AND THEN MOVE ON TO OTHER TOPICS, WHICH INCLUDE LOCATION OF MEETINGS.

OKAY, AMADEU.

>>AMADEU ABRIL I ABRIL: OKAY, REGARDING COMMUNICATIONS, I WOULD LIKE TO DESCRIBE SOMETHING THAT HAS BEEN SAID BEFORE.

YOU KNOW, EVEN WE ARE A USUAL SUSPECT IN THE ICANN MEETINGS LIKE ME, BUT YOU GET OUT OF TOUCH IN THREE MONTHS AND THEN THERE IS A MEETING.

YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO, WHAT TO READ, WHAT -- YOU KNOW, WHAT'S GOING ON.

EVERYTHING, IT'S IN A MAIL THAT MARILYN SENDS OR CHUCK OR BRUCE OR SOMEONE SENDS.

BUT, YOU KNOW, JUST STUPIDLY SUGGESTED READINGS SOMEWHERE THAT DOESN'T FORCE YOU TO -- YOU TO HAVE 20 DIFFERENT MAILING LISTS WOULD BE HELPFUL.

AND SECONDLY, THE COMMUNICATIONS ARE VERY CONSTITUENCY OR GROUP-BASED ARE NOT ICANN-WIDE BASED LIKE THE ORGANIZATION OF THE MEETINGS.

IF YOU'RE NOT PROFESSIONALLY FOLLOWING ONE OF THOSE GROUPS, YOU FEEL A LITTLE BIT LOST.

WE NEED A LITTLE BIT MORE JUST ICANN BASIC INFORMATION BEFORE THE MEETINGS.

>>SUSAN CRAWFORD: THAT'S A GREAT SUGGESTION, I KNOW ONE THAT PAUL LEVINS IS WORKING ON HARD, TO MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE BROADLY AVAILABLE INFORMATION THAT LETS YOU KNOW WHAT'S HAPPENING IN A MEETING, WHAT'S ABOUT TO HAPPEN, WHY YOU SHOULD BE THERE, SO YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE AN INSIDER TO UNDERSTAND.

PLEASE INTRODUCE YOURSELF.

>>KEITH DAVIDSON: KEITH DAVIDSON FROM .NZ AND HOST OF THE WELLINGTON MEETING EARLIER THIS YEAR.

JUST ANSWERING THE QUESTION OR PART OF THE QUESTION FROM TWO SPEAKERS AGO, IN WELLINGTON, WE HAD 170 ATTENDEES FROM NEW ZEALAND, WHEREAS I DON'T THINK WE WOULD HAVE HAD MORE THAN TEN OR 11 NEW ZEALAND ATTENDEES AT ALL PREVIOUS ICANN MEETINGS.

THERE ARE 49 AUSTRALIANS, BUT IT ALWAYS SEEMS LIKE THAT.

AND --

[ LAUGHTER ]

>>KEITH DAVIDSON: AND THERE WERE, VERY INTERESTINGLY, 47 ATTENDEES FROM THE PACIFIC ISLANDS.

AND THEY ARE PEOPLE WHO TRADITIONALLY DON'T GO TO ANY OF THESE MEETINGS.

I THINK THERE WERE 800 PARTICIPANTS OR VIEWERS ONLINE AS WELL.

SO I THINK IN TERMS OF AN OUTREACH PROCESS, YOU COULD SAY IT WAS VERY SUCCESSFUL.

>>SUSAN CRAWFORD: THAT WAS A SPECIAL MEETING THERE IN NEW ZEALAND AND A LOT OF -- OKAY, I HAVE LOTS OF PEOPLE.

SO HAND IT DOWN FIRST TO ADAM.

>>ADAM PEAKE: ADAM PEAKE FROM GLOCOM IN TOKYO.

FOLLOWING UP ON KEITH'S POINT, HOW MANY OF THOSE PEOPLE ARE SORT OF LEAVING TRACKS WITHIN THE ORGANIZATION, THE NEW ZEALAND PEOPLE WHO JOINED IN THE WELLINGTON MEETING ARE LEAVING TRACKS IN THE ORGANIZATION, HOW MANY ARE MEMBERS OF CONSTITUENCIES, HOW MANY ARE PARTICIPATING?

BECAUSE ONE OF THE THINGS, HAVING PARTICIPATED IN THE NONCOMMERCIAL CONSTITUENCY, IS WE DO NOT SEE PEOPLE ABLE TO CONTINUE PARTICIPATION AFTER ATTENDING A SINGLE LOCAL MEETING.

SO IT'S RATHER A SORT OF SCATTERSHOT THING.

YOU COME HERE, BUT YOU CANNOT GET ON TO PORTUGAL.

YOU CANNOT GET ON TO A FUTURE MEETING.

AND WITHOUT SOME ABILITY FOR SUSTAINED PARTICIPATION, THERE'S AN ISSUE OF SORT OF, YOU KNOW, WHERE DID THE TRACKS GO FROM AND WHERE DO WE DEVELOP THE COMMUNITY?

>>SUSAN CRAWFORD: I WANT KEITH TO RESPOND TO THAT QUESTION.

>>KEITH DAVIDSON: OKAY.

I THINK THE ANSWER'S NOT QUITE SO QUANTIFIABLE INSTANTLY.

BUT AS A RESULT OF THE MEETING IN WELLINGTON AND WORK THAT WE HAVE BEEN DOING IN AN OUTREACH CAPACITY, OUR ORGANIZATION, INTERNETNZ, WHICH IS AN OPEN MEMBERSHIP ORGANIZATION, IS NOW A RECOGNIZED AT-LARGE STRUCTURE.

AND THAT GIVES WHAT WE THINK IS A GREAT BENEFIT TO NEW ZEALANDERS IN TERMS OF PROTECTION OF THEIR GTLD REGISTRATION RIGHTS.

SO, YOU KNOW, FROM FACILITATING THE MEETING, THERE ARE SOME ABSOLUTE AND DIRECT BENEFITS.

THAT MAY NOT MEAN THAT INDIVIDUALS COME AND TRACK THE PROGRESS, BUT THERE ARE SOMEBODY LOOKING AFTER THEIR INTERESTS.

>>SUSAN CRAWFORD: I WANT TO FOCUS STILL ON COMMUNICATIONS.

IF WE COULD KEEP OUR COMMENTS TO THAT FOCUS FOR A MOMENT, THAT WILL HELP.

SO WOLFGANG WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK, AND THEN MARILYN AND --

>>WOLFGANG KLEINWAECHTER: MY NAME IS WOLFGANG KLEINWAECHTER.

IT GOES TO COMMUNICATIONS.

YOU KNOW, THE ITU CAN LEARN A LOT FROM ICANN.

BUT ICANN CAN ALSO LEARN SOMETHING FROM THE ITU, IN PARTICULAR, IF IT COMES TO REPORTING.

YOU KNOW, DURING THE PLENIPOTENTIARY CONFERENCE OF THE ITU, THEY HAVE MORE OR LESS A DAILY SERVICE WHICH QUOTES DAILY HIGHLIGHTS, WHICH IS MUCH MORE THAN A PRESS RELEASE, WHICH GIVES YOU IN FIVE, SIX PAGES, SOMETIMES TEN PAGES, A VERY DETAILED OVERVIEW OF WHAT HAS BEEN DISCUSSED IN THE DIFFERENT COMMITTEES AND WHAT ARE THE ITEMS.

IT MEANS IF WE WOULD HAVE DURING ICANN MAIN MEETINGS SUCH A DAILY HIGHLIGHT DOCUMENT, WHICH WOULD, YOU KNOW -- IT WOULD BE PERFECT, SO THAT IT MEANS REPORTING BACK FROM THE CONSTITUENCIES TO THE PRESS OFFICER OR WHO ELSE IS IT.

BUT I THINK THIS WOULD BE REALLY IMPORTANT TO ENABLE OTHERS WHO ARE NOT PARTICIPATING TO FOLLOW WHAT'S GOING ON AND TO PREPARE FOR THE NEXT MEETING.

>>SUSAN CRAWFORD: THANK YOU.

I WANT TO POINT OUT THAT THE ICANNWIKI IS DOING THAT, THEY'RE PUBLISHING AN ICANNWIKI QUICKIE AND TRYING TO MAKE SURE THERE'S A DAILY REPORT.

MARILYN.

>>MARILYN CADE: MY COMMENT, ACTUALLY, FOLLOWS PRETTY NATURALLY, I THINK, ON KEITH'S.

AND THAT IS, FOR WHAT PURPOSE IS THE COMMUNICATION?

SO LET ME JUST SAY VERY QUICKLY THAT I, MYSELF, THINK THERE'S MORE THAN ONE CIRCLE OF -- THERE'S MORE THAN ONE WAY TO BE -- THERE'S AWARENESS ABOUT ICANN.

THERE'S PARTICIPATION IN THE OVERALL SET OF -- OR FOLLOWING THE OVERALL SET OF ACTIVITIES THAT ICANN IS RESPONSIBLE FOR, SECURITY, STABILITY.

THERE'S GETTING TO A DEEPER DEGREE OF PARTICIPATION BECAUSE YOU HAVE AN INTEREST IN A PARTICULAR ISSUE.

THEN THERE MAY BE ACTUALLY GETTING INVOLVED IN POLICY DEVELOPMENT, ET CETERA.

SO DIFFERENT FORMS ARE -- AND DIFFERENT LEVELS OF COMMUNICATION, MAYBE I MIGHT SAY, ARE ACTUALLY NEEDED TO SUPPORT ALL OF THOSE.

KEITH, IN NEW ZEALAND, INTERNETNZ HELD AN EVENT THAT ENCOURAGED THE PACIFIC ISLANDERS TO COME, BECAUSE THERE WAS THEIR OWN EVENT.

BUT WHILE THEY WERE THERE, THEY WERE ABLE TO PARTICIPATE AND BE INTEGRATED INTO THE ICANN FAMILY.

THE FOOTPRINT THAT'S LEFT, IT SEEMS TO ME, AS A MEMBER OF INTERNETNZ, SO I'M PROMOTING THEM, THE FOOTPRINT THAT'S LEFT, I THINK, IS, THERE'S SOMEBODY THERE THAT CAN KEEP UP THE COMMUNICATION AND THE LINKAGE.

AND IS THAT A QUESTION WE OUGHT TO BE ASKING OURSELVES AS WE GO INTO REMOTE -- INTO THE DISTRIBUTED MEETINGS, IS THERE A WAY TO CONTINUE TO SUPPORT PEOPLE WHO GET INVOLVED?

>>SUSAN CRAWFORD: ALL RIGHT.

SO ONGOING SUPPORT.

NOW, BRET HAS BEEN WANTING TO SPEAK.

AND THEN RAY IN THE BACK.

>>BRET FAUSETT: THANKS.

ONE OF THE INTERESTING DEVELOPMENTS IN THE EVOLUTION OF ICANN MEETINGS HAS BEEN THE MOVEMENT OF COMMUNITY/BOARD DIALOGUE OUT OF THE PUBLIC FORUM AND INTO THE CONSTITUENCY DAY MEETINGS THAT WE HAD YESTERDAY.

AND I FIND THAT SOME OF THE MOST PRODUCTIVE DIALOGUE IS COMING IN THOSE SMALLER MEETINGS, WHERE PEOPLE CAN SIT AROUND A TABLE AND TALK TO EACH OTHER IN A MORE INTIMATE SETTING.

NONE OF THAT, THOUGH, GETS BROADCAST BACK TO PEOPLE WHO ARE TRYING TO PARTICIPATE REMOTELY.

SO IF YOU WERE WATCHING ICANN ONLY THROUGH THE WEBCAST, YOU WOULD THINK THAT THE PUBLIC FORUM HAS BECOME.

>>SUSAN CRAWFORD: MORIBUND.

>>BRET FAUSETT: -- LESS INTERESTING, LESS DIALOGUE.

YOU WOULD COMPLETELY MISS THAT THAT PRODUCTIVE DIALOGUE HAS MOVED INTO ANOTHER DAY AND IT'S NO LONGER WEBCAST.

I WOULD LIKE TO SEE US HAVE BETTER COMMUNICATIONS OUT OF THOSE SMALL FORA TO THE PEOPLE WHO WANT TO PARTICIPATE REMOTELY.

>>SUSAN CRAWFORD: A COMMENT ON FORMAT.

IF YOU'RE SITTING IN THE BACK AND YOU'D LIKE TO TALK.

IT'S UNFORTUNATE I KNOW THE NAMES OF THE PEOPLE WHO ARE SPEAKING HERE.

I THINK THAT'S WRONG.

WE SHOULD GET PEOPLE INVOLVED WHO I DON'T KNOW.

ALTHOUGH I STILL HAVE ONE LEFT WHO I DO KNOW WHO I NEED TO CALL ON.

BUT AFTER THAT, THIS GENTLEMAN I DON'T KNOW.

>> RAYMOND KING: MY NAME IS RAYMOND KING, AND I'M HERE WITH ICANNWIKI.

AND I WANT TO JUST FOLLOW UP ON BRET'S COMMENT ABOUT GETTING THE CONVERSATIONS AND THE REAL DIALOGUE THAT'S HAPPENING IN THE SMALLER MEETINGS AVAILABLE TO EVERYBODY.

THE -- I KNOW, BECAUSE I'VE BEEN TRYING TO TAKE NOTES FOR A LOT OF MEETINGS AND PUT THEM UP ON THE ICANNWIKI, THAT IT IS -- IT'S A DIFFICULT PROCESS.

IT TAKES TIME AND EFFORT.

IT'S ACTUALLY A LOT EASIER TO JUST, YOU KNOW, TAKE A WHOLE TRANSCRIPTION OR TAKE NOTHING.

BUT TO SUMMARIZE AND PROPERLY CAPTURE THE SPIRIT OF WHAT'S HAPPENING TAKES TIME AND EFFORT.

AND I THINK THAT IT'S IN SOME WAYS UNFAIR TO KIND OF TOSS IT BACK ON ICANN OR WHATEVER GROUP IT IS TO DO THIS.

I THINK IT'S EVERYBODY'S RESPONSIBILITY, BECAUSE THIS IS A PARTICIPATORY EXERCISE.

I MEAN, THE WHOLE -- THE WHOLE CONCEPT IS ABOUT USER PARTICIPATION.

AND I THINK THAT WE ALL NEED TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY.

SO WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS TO SET SOME LEVEL OF AN EXAMPLE BY TAKING NOTES ON MEETINGS THAT WE'RE INTERESTED IN AND POSTING THEM ONLINE AND MAKING THAT AVAILABLE TO PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT AT THE MEETINGS.

I HAD A GUY IN OUR BOOTH SAY TO ME -- HE WAS DISAPPOINTED WITH THE NUMBER OF MINUTES AND NOTES THAT WERE TAKEN ON THE WIKI DURING MOROCCO.

AND I FELT VERY BAD ABOUT THAT.

BUT I ENCOURAGED HIM TO DO THAT, HELP US IN THIS PROCESS, BECAUSE THE -- THE WIKI IS BASICALLY JUST A PLATFORM, BUT IT'S A PLATFORM FOR EVERYBODY, AND, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T OWN IT.

WE BELIEVE THAT IT'S A COMMUNITY-BASED EFFORT AND ONE THAT WILL BE REALLY SUCCESSFUL ONLY IF EVERYBODY PARTICIPATES.

>>SUSAN CRAWFORD: OKAY.

THERE'S ICANNWIKI.ORG.

>> GAVIN BROWNE: MY NAME IS GAVIN BROWNE, AND I'M FROM CENTRAL NIC.

I HAD A COMMENT ABOUT THE VIRTUAL PARTICIPATION.

AT THE MOMENT, THERE'S A REALLY GOOD CHANNEL OF INFORMATION COMING OUT OF THE MEETINGS OUT ONTO THE INTERNET.

SO IF YOU'RE A REMOTE PARTICIPANT, YOU CAN WATCH A LOT.

BUT WHEN YOU SAY SOMETHING, WHETHER IT'S IN THE IRC CHANNEL OR IN THE JABBER CHAT OR IN THE REMOTE PARTICIPATION SITE, THERE IS A FEELING THAT YOU'RE TALKING INTO A BRICK WALL, THAT ANYTHING THAT'S SAID IN THOSE CHANNELS JUST DISAPPEARS AND ISN'T REALLY REFLECTED ON VERY MUCH.

IT'S GETTING BETTER NOW -- NOT REALLY REFLECTED ON INSIDE THE MEETING ITSELF.

ONE OF THE THINGS I ALWAYS THOUGHT WOULD BE A GREAT IDEA WOULD BE TO PUT THE IRC CHANNEL UP ON ONE OF THESE BIG PROJECTION SCREENS SO ANYONE WATCHING IN THE AUDIENCE CAN ACTUALLY SEE WHAT'S BEING SAID.

I'VE BEEN DOING A BIT OF WORK TRYING TO LINK THESE SORT OF DISPARATE FORUMS FOR COMMUNICATION WITH MY IRC SECOND LIFE HACK.

AND I'VE ALSO GOT AN ICANNWIKI SECOND LIFE HACK AS WELL.

SO EVERYONE CAN TALK TO EACH OTHER AT THE SAME TIME AND EVERYONE CAN HEAR IT.

>>SEBASTIEN BACHOLLET: SEBASTIEN BACHOLLET.

JUST TO TELL YOU THAT IF YOU WANT TO BE UNDERSTOOD, JUST THINK THAT YOU ARE SPEAKING NOT YOUR LANGUAGE, AND TRY TO KEEP PACING THE WAY YOU SPEAK WHEN YOU ARE ENGLISH NATIVE SPEAKERS. OKAY, WE CAN READ, BUT IF WE HAVE TO READ AND NOT LISTEN, IT'S AN AWFUL JOB ALONG THE DAY, AND IT'S VERY DIFFICULT.

I HAVE ONE COMMENT.

IT'S THAT OTHER MEETINGS COULD BE INTERESTING TO BE ORGANIZED JUST BEFORE OR JUST AFTER THE ICANN MEETING.

I WANT TO TAKE AN EXAMPLE. WE ORGANIZED WITH OUR FRIEND FROM ISOC MOROCCO A MEETING CALLED EGENI AFRICA JUST THE DAY BEFORE ICANN MEETING, AND WE GET THE PARTICIPATION OF PEOPLE WHO WERE NOT SUPPOSED TO COME TO THE ICANN MEETING AT ALL BUT THEY LEARN ABOUT ICANN, THEY MEET WITH PEOPLE FROM ICANN. IT WAS IN THE SAME PREMISE, AND IT WAS, I GUESS, VERY INTERESTING. AND SOME OF THEM STAY FOR SOME MEETING OF THE ICANN.

AND IT WAS A GOOD SUCCESS FOR THAT AREA.

I WAS OFFERING TO ORGANIZE THIS TYPE OF MEETING BEFORE EACH ICANN MEETING. IT WAS NOT A BIG SUCCESS. NOBODY CAME BACK TO SAY THAT IT WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA.

BUT WE WILL KEEP ON TRACK AND DO THAT MEETING IN FRANCE JUST BEFORE THE PORTUGUESE MEETING IN NEXT MARCH.

>>SUSAN CRAWFORD: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, SEBASTIEN. JUST TO REMIND PEOPLE, WE ARE GOING TO TRY TO STICK ON THE ISSUE OF COMMUNICATIONS, WHICH ITSELF, WE HAVE A LOT TO LEARN THERE.

SO PLEASE INTRODUCE YOURSELF.

>>NAOMASA MARUYAMA: YES, THIS IS NAOMASA MARUYAMA WITH JPNIC WHO GAVE A RATHER STINGING COMMENT TO YOU IN THE LAST MEETING, SUSAN. DO YOU REMEMBER THAT?

>>SUSAN CRAWFORD: YES.

>>NAOMASA MARUYAMA: ABOUT THE SPEED OF THE SPEECH. I DON'T REPEAT THAT TODAY. BUT SOMEONE SAID ABOUT THE SMALL DIALOGUE, WITHIN THE SMALL GROUP, THAT IS VERY IMPRESSIVE. BECAUSE FOR ME, LIKE ME, FOREIGNER, NOT NATIVE SPEAKER, THE SPEED OF THE SPEECH IS VERY IMPORTANT, BECAUSE THE -- I ALWAYS AFRAID OF MISSING TIMING TO A SPEAK UP.

SO SOMETIMES I EXPERIENCE THAT I WANT TO SPEAK SOMETHING, BUT I CANNOT FIND GOOD TIMING FOR THAT, SO PEOPLE GO ONTO ANOTHER TOPIC SO THAT I CANNOT SPEAK.

THAT IS THE REAL AFRAID I HAVE ALWAYS.

AND WITHIN THE SMALL GROUP OF PEOPLE, PEOPLE ARE RATHER PATIENT TO HEAR ABOUT THE -- LIKE THE SPEECH LIKE THAT. EVEN IF THE -- MY TOPIC IS A LITTLE BIT GOOD NOT TIMING, OTHER PEOPLE ARE PATIENT IN A RATHER SMALL GROUP. BUT IN THE HUGE GROUP, LIKE THE PUBLIC FORUM OR LIKE THAT, IT'S VERY DIFFICULT FOR US TO SPEAK.

SO THIS, TODAY'S, THIS SESSION IS VERY GOOD IN THE SENSE THAT IN THE SCREEN, THE TOPIC IS CLEARLY WRITTEN SO THAT I CAN EASILY IDENTIFY THE GOOD TIMING FOR THE SPEECH. THAT IS SOME IDEA THAT THE -- THAT FOSTERS US TO SPEAK EASILY.

I GREATLY APPRECIATE FOR THAT.

AND TO SPEAK OF THE SMALL GROUP OF SPEECH, IN THIS ICANN MEETING, THE CROSS-CONSTITUENCY MEETING WITH THE BOARD WAS VERY GOOD IDEA BECAUSE IN THE BREAKFAST MEETING, THERE WAS ONLY SEVEN IN EACH TABLE, SEVEN OR EIGHT PEOPLE IN EACH TABLE, AND I COULD SPEAK WITH PAUL TWOMEY AND PHILIP SHEPPARD VERY CLOSELY. AND THEY ARE VERY PATIENT TO HEAR ABOUT MY OPINION.

THAT IS A GOOD IDEA.

AND I HOPE THESE COMMENTS WILL BE A GOOD IDEA, SOME SUGGESTIONS FOR IMPROVED THINGS.

>>SUSAN CRAWFORD: THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THESE ARE WONDERFUL COMMENTS AND I AM SLOWING DOWN, EVEN AT THIS MOMENT, BECAUSE I TEND TO SPEAK TOO QUICKLY, AND THERE WERE TWO SETS OF THINGS THERE. ONE IS THE SPEED OF SPEECH. THE OTHER IS, FOLLOWING UP ON A COMMENT HERE ABOUT THE SMALLER MEETINGS, WHICH DO HAPPEN, AND AREN'T NECESSARILY BROADCAST OUT TO THE WORLD. AND ARE VERY PRODUCTIVE. THE GNSO DID THAT IN A COUPLE OF SETTINGS FOR US THIS WEEK AS A BOARD, A SMALLER GROUP.

I WOULD LIKE TO MOVE ON, NOT THAT WE HAVE EXHAUSTED THIS TOPIC EVEN FOR A MOMENT BUT PAUL WANTS TO SPEAK.

>>PAUL LEVINS: SORRY, I WON'T TAKE UP MUCH OF THE TIME BUT I WANTED TO MAKE A COMMENT AND SOME OBSERVATIONS ON SOME OF THE THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN SAID SO FAR.

FIRSTLY, THANK YOU VERY MUCH TO KIEREN MCCARTHY FOR PUTTING THIS REMOTE SITE TOGETHER SO QUICKLY. HE HAS DONE AN OUTSTANDING JOB. SO HI, KIEREN, AND THANK YOU. I WANTED TO PLACE THAT ON THE RECORD.

AND AS YOU HAVE GATHERED FROM THE ACCENT, I AM ONE OF THE 49, SO I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT'S ABOUT. MAYBE WE KNOW SOMETHING -- WE ARE A LONG WAY AWAY FROM ANYTHING, SO MAYBE WE KNOW SOMETHING ABOUT DISTANCE.

SECONDLY -- OR THIRDLY, I COULDN'T AGREE MORE WITH MARILYN CADE'S POINT ABOUT COMMUNICATIONS FOR WHAT. IT'S BEEN IMPRESSED UPON ME BY THE COMMUNITY AND BY THE BOARD, WE HAVE A VERY NARROW TECHNICAL REMIT. SO WHAT DO WE WANT TO BROADLY COMMUNICATE? WHAT PARTICIPATION DO WE WANT AT THESE MEETINGS?

SO I AGREE WHOLEHEARTEDLY WITH THAT.

WHAT ARE WE TRYING TO POPULARIZE, IF YOU LIKE?

WE COULD MAKE A LOT MORE USE OF ONLINE TOOLS. THIS REMOTE PARTICIPATION SITE IS JUST THE COMMENCEMENT, ONE TOOL THAT I HOPE WE CAN CONTINUE TO BUILD UPON. PARTICULARLY THE ONES THAT ARE AT THE EDGE. WE HAD OUR TERRIFIC SIGNING THAT TOOK PLACE YESTERDAY, THE COMMENCEMENT OF OUR FIRST RALO. AND IT WAS ON YOUTUBE WITHIN HALF AN HOUR. I THINK WE NEED TO BE MORE FOCUSED ON THOSE SORTS OF ONLINE TOOLS.

AND THE OTHER THING WAS BACK IN '85, SHOWING MY AGE A LITTLE BIT, I WAS INVOLVED IN RUNNING A PROJECT CALLED INTERNATIONAL YOUTH YEAR. AND THE EARLIER TALK WAS ABOUT SEED FUNDING AND WHAT DO YOU LEAVE BEHIND.

AND I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I LEARNED OUT OF THE MANAGEMENT OF THAT YEAR WAS THAT A VERY, VERY SMALL AMOUNT OF MONEY BY WAY OF SEED FUNDING GOES AN AWFULLY LONG WAY FOR DEDICATED, INTERESTED, AND TALENTED DEVELOPING COMMUNITIES.

SO I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING WE SHOULD GIVE VERY SERIOUS THOUGHT TO, HOW DO YOU CONTINUE.

FINALLY, THE -- I MUST SAY SOMETHING ABOUT THE NON-ENGLISH SPEAKING BACKGROUND TRANSLATION ISSUE.

WE HAVE TO GET MUCH BETTER AT THIS, AND I THINK IT IS BECAUSE, FRANKLY, WE ARE LARGELY AN ENGLISH-SPEAKING STAFF, AND IT'S A BIT -- WE SUFFER A BIT FROM THE BRITNEY SPEARS COMPLEX OF SORT OF WE COME ALONG TO THE HOST COUNTRIES, WE'RE THINKING IN ENGLISH AND SPEAKING IN ENGLISH, AND IT'S SORT OF LIKE, OOPS, I DID IT AGAIN. YOU KNOW, WE FORGOT TO TRANSLATE SOMETHING, WE FORGOT TO PRODUCE SOMETHING IN THE HOST LANGUAGE.

SO THAT NEEDS TO BE A POINT OF FOCUS WITH THE STAFF AND I AM WANTING TO REINFORCE THAT WITH THE ICANN STAFF.

THANK YOU.

>>SUSAN CRAWFORD: THANK YOU SO MUCH, PAUL. PAUL IS THINKING VERY HARD ABOUT THESE THINGS AND URGING US ALL TO MAKE PROGRESS. SO I THINK WE CAN HAVE A LOT OF HOPE FOR THE FUTURE ON MANY OF THESE TOPICS.

SO COMMUNICATION IS A BIG ONE.

A LOT OF FOOD FOR THOUGHT THERE, THOUGHTS ABOUT BETTER ONLINE DIRECTION, MORE AGENDAS, CROSS-CUTTING AGENDAS, MORE OUTCOMES FROM MEETINGS, AND LEAVING A FOOTPRINT WITH PARTICIPANTS THAT THEY CAN CONTINUE ON FOR A PURPOSE THAT WE ALL DECIDE IS WORTH IT, AS MARILYN HAS MADE CLEAR.

SO THE OPPORTUNITIES HERE, SUGGESTED IN THE PAPER, ARE THINGS LIKE HAVING AN ONLINE DOCKET OF EVENTS AND POLICY MAKING ACTIVITIES. THEY ARE ACTUALLY REQUIRED IN OUR BYLAWS TO DO THAT, AND WE ARE TRYING. TO HAVE AGENDAS ONLINE IN ADVANCE AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE. ALSO TRYING TO DO THAT.

TYING AGENDAS TO OUTPUTS, MAKING IT VISIBLE, APPARENT WHAT PROGRESS IS BEING MADE SO THAT PARTICIPANTS WHO AREN'T AT THE PHYSICAL MEETINGS GET A BETTER SENSE. AND EVEN THOSE WHO ARE SEE WHAT HAPPENED, THE OUTPUT.

DETAILED MINUTES BEING POSTED. THE ICANNWIKI IS DOING THAT ON A VOLUNTEER BASIS WITH A LOT OF MEETINGS. THE SCRIBES DO A TRANSCRIPTION, BUT MINUTES WOULD ALSO BE HELPFUL.

AND ANOTHER COMMUNICATIONS ELEMENT IS CORRESPONDENCE HAVING TO DO WITH ICANN'S FUNCTIONING. A SUGGESTION MADE IN THE PAPER THAT WE SHOULD TRY TO GET THAT CORRESPONDENCE ONLINE SO THAT OTHERS CAN FIND IT EASILY.

OKAY. WE HAVE NOT EXHAUSTED THIS TOPIC, BUT I WANT TO MOVE ON TO THE IDEA OF A MEETINGS PROTOCOL.

THE SUGGESTION THAT I MADE IN THE PAPER WAS THAT IT SHOULD BE KNOWN TO PEOPLE WHETHER THEY ARE IN A PUBLIC OR A PRIVATE MEETING. AND WHAT IT MEANS TO BE IN A PUBLIC MEETING IN TERMS OF HAVING YOUR WORDS REPEATED, YOUR IMAGE PROJECTED, AND WHAT THE RULES ARE FOR A PRIVATE MEETING.

AND FOR A PUBLIC MEETING.

SO THE COMMENT I GOT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THAT. IT HAS TO DO WITH PAYMENT OF A REGISTRATION FEE.

SO I INVITE COMMENT ON MEETING PROTOCOLS. UNDERSTANDINGS THAT REGISTRANTS AT MEETINGS SHOULD HAVE BEFORE THEY SHOW UP, HOW ICANN COULD HELP WITH THAT STANDARDIZING MEETING BEHAVIOR, SO TO SPEAK, OR EXPECTATIONS.

ARE THERE ANY THOUGHTS ON THESE TOPICS? YOU ONE IS PROTOCOL FOR BEHAVIOR, AND REGISTRATION FEE. IF YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT THAT, WE CAN TALK ABOUT THAT IS WELL.

BUT LET'S START WITH THE PUBLIC/PRIVATE DISTINCTION. DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANYTHING TO SAY ABOUT PUBLIC VERSUS PRIVATE MEETINGS?

>>MICHAEL PALAGE: MIKE PALAGE. GETTING TO YOUR POINT ABOUT A SMALL FEE. AS AN ATTENDEE OF BERLIN, I BELIEVE THAT WAS THE ONLY ICANN MEETING WAS THERE WAS EVER A FEE CHARGED. I THINK A FEE, WHETHER IT'S $50, $100, I THINK IT POTENTIALLY CREATES A, IF YOU WILL, BARRIER TO ENTRY -- OR, IF YOU WILL, A SPEED BUMP. NOT A BARRIER BUT A SPEED BUMP. AND CONSIDERING THAT MOST PEOPLE WHO COME TO THESE MEETINGS INVEST THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS FOR AIRFARE, HOTELS AND STUFF LIKE THAT, I JUST DON'T SEE THE BENEFIT OF A FEE BEING THAT HELPFUL, PARTICULARLY IN LIGHT OF ICANN'S GROWING BUDGET.

I THINK THAT IF WE NEEDED MORE RESOURCES FOR TRANSLATION AND STUFF LIKE THAT, I THINK THAT HOPEFULLY COULD BE ENCOMPASSED UNDER EXISTING BUDGETARY CONSTRAINTS.

>>KEITH DAVIDSON: KEITH DAVIDSON AGAIN. I WONDER IF THERE MIGHT BE AN OPPORTUNITY FOR THE INTRODUCTION OF VOLUNTARY FEES. WE USED THAT IN THE WWTLD COMMUNITY MANY YEARS AGO WHERE WE WOULD PAY 100 U.S DOLLARS PER MEETING AS THE CONTRIBUTION PER CCTLD TOWARDS A MEETING OUTSIDE OF ICANN. AND I WONDER IF THAT SAME APPROACH COULD APPLY WITHIN ICANN MEETINGS.

THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO COME ALONG TO DERIVE THEIR INCOME THROUGH THE INTERNET AND PERHAPS THEY SHOULD BE PAYING A VOLUNTARY FEE, BUT THAT DOESN'T PUT ANY PRESSURE ON PEOPLE WHO DON'T WANT TO PAY. AND PERHAPS TEST THAT AS A PROCESS TO GET A SUMMARY FROM.

>>BERTRAND DE LA CHAPELLE: THANK YOU. BERTRAND DE LA CHAPELLE. JUST A POINT ON THE FEE. APART FROM THE OPPORTUNITY OF HAVING A FEE OR NOT HAVING A FEE, ONE QUESTION THAT HAS TO BE ASKED IS WHAT WOULD BE THE ALLOCATION OF THE FEE. WOULD THAT BE FOR SUPPORTING, FOR INSTANCE, THE COSTS THAT ARE APPARENTLY INCURRED BY THE HOST COUNTRIES? WOULD THAT GO, FOR INSTANCE, INTO A FUND THAT WOULD SUPPORT IN PREFERENCE THE SMALLER COUNTRIES RATHER THAN THE HUB MEETINGS, FOR INSTANCE?

YOU CAN IMAGINE, IF I READ THE PAPER WELL, THAT IF THERE IS ONE HUB MEETING A YEAR AND OTHER SMALLER MEETINGS, OR MEETINGS IN SMALLER PLACES, THE BURDEN IS HIGHER FOR THE OTHER LOCATIONS, AND YOU COULD IMAGINE THAT IF THERE IS A FEE, VOLUNTARY OR NONVOLUNTARY, IT COULD BE DEDICATED MOSTLY TO COVERING THE COST AND THE BURDEN THAT IT REPRESENTS FOR THE SMALLER MEETINGS' HOSTS, FOR INSTANCE.

>>SUSAN CRAWFORD: THAT'S VERY INTERESTING.

BEHIND YOU.

OH, OVER THERE.

>>CHUCK GOMES: CHUCK GOMES FROM VERISIGN.

JUST REGARDING THE ALL STAKEHOLDER MEETINGS SHOULD BE PUBLIC, I THINK I LIKE THE WORDING OF THE SECOND SENTENCE BETTER. THOSE THAT ARE PRIVATE SHOULD BE SUBJECT TO CLEAR GUIDELINES. "ALL" IS AWFUL ENCOMPASSING.

FOR EXAMPLE, AT THESE MEETINGS -- AND THE REGISTRY CONSTITUENCY HAS ESTABLISHED A LUNCH MEETING WITH THE BOARD AND ICANN STAFF DURING CONSTITUENCY DAY EVERY TIME. BUT, FRANKLY, WE CAN'T AFFORD TO FEED ANYBODY LUNCH THAT WANTS TO COME IN TO THAT MEETING.

SO IT WAS CLOSED THIS TIME, BUT ONLY FOR THAT REASON, NOT BECAUSE THERE WAS ANYTHING PRIVATE IN THAT MEETING.

SO WE JUST HAVE TO BE CAREFUL HOW WE WORD THAT.

I THINK THE INTENT IS GOOD THERE. LET'S REMEMBER THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS. THERE ARE TIMES, TOO, WITHIN OUR CONSTITUENCY WHERE WE DO HAVE TO TALK ABOUT SOME ISSUES THAT WOULD INVOLVE PERSONNEL OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, ELECTIONS OR SOMETHING THAT MIGHT BE CONFIDENTIAL.

SO AS LONG AS THERE IS ADEQUATE EXCEPTIONS THERE, I THINK THAT'S OKAY.

>>SUSAN CRAWFORD: OKAY. I HEAR THE DISTINCTION THAT TO SAY ALL MEETINGS SHOULD BE PUBLIC SOUNDS LIKE OVERREACHING, SOUNDS TOO MUCH.

>>CHUCK GOMES: I THINK SO.

>>SUSAN CRAWFORD: OKAY.

THE OTHER SUGGESTION BEING MADE IS THAT THOSE THAT ARE PRIVATE SHOULD BE SUBJECT TO CLEAR GUIDELINES SO IF YOU ARE PARTICIPATING IN A PRIVATE MEETING, YOU KNOW WHETHER OR NOT YOU WILL BE RECORDED, A SUGGESTION THAT HAS COME FROM SOME PEOPLE WHO HAVE A ATTENDED MEETINGS THAT THEY WOULD LIKE TO KNOW.

>>AMADEU ABRIL I ABRIL: OKAY. AMADEU ABRIL I ABRIL. REGARDING WHAT WE ARE SAYING HERE, WE HAVE A DOUBLE ACCESS HERE. ON ONE HAND YOU HAVE THIS PRIVATE/PUBLIC THAT ALSO INVOLVES THE NATURE OF THE STATEMENTS AND THE ACCESS TO THE STATEMENTS THAT YOU MAKE THERE. THE SECOND ONE IS CLOSED OR OPEN REGARDING THE ACCESS YOU HAVE TO SIMPLY ENTERING THAT MEETING. JUST, YOU KNOW, WHAT HAPPENS WITH THE COMMUNICATIONS ONCE YOU ARE IN THAT MEETING.

AND FRANKLY, I THINK THERE WAS A TENDENCY SOME YEARS AGO TO INCREASE THE NUMBER OF CLOSED MEETINGS BEYOND WHAT WAS NEEDED, REALLY, FOR THE NATURE OF THE THINGS BEING DISCUSSED THERE.

, AND BEYOND THE POINT OF WHO PAYS FOR THE SANDWICHES.

REGARDING THIS, I WOULD PREFER, YOU KNOW PUBLIC AND OPEN AS, YOU KNOW, AS OFTEN AS WE CAN AFFORD. BUT AT LEAST THIS BEING CLEARLY INDICATED IN THE AGENDA. JUST NOT TO HAVE SURPRISES. BELONG TO THE RIGHT CONSTITUENCY OR THE RIGHT GROUP AND YOU STEP IN THE DOOR AND YOU ARE THROWN OUT. BESIDES THE GAC. WE KNOW THAT IS CLOSED, FULL STOP.

>>SUSAN CRAWFORD: ACTUALLY, THE GAC WILL TELL US, THEY ARE MORE OPEN THAN MANY OTHER MEETINGS.

>>AMADEU ABRIL I ABRIL: YES, EXACTLY. THIS IS CHANGING BACK TO MORE NORMAL THINGS.

NOW, REGARDING OTHER THINGS THAT AFFECT PROTOCOL, I HAD THE SENTIMENT THAT SOMEHOW ICANN IS IMPOSING ON THE LOCAL HOST A LEVEL OF "FEEL GOOD" SECURITY THAT'S A LITTLE BIT RIDICULOUS.

NOW, WE HAVE ALL THESE PICTURES WITH THESE BAR CODES HERE, AND THEN NOBODY ASKS YOU FOR ANY IDENTIFICATION CARD WHEN YOU GET THIS.

I AM NOT CRITICIZING THE LOCAL HOST. QUITE THE CONTRARY.

I AM CRITICIZING THE SOMEHOW ARTIFICIAL FEELING OF SECURITY THAT'S BEING PROVIDED WHEN WE KNOW THAT THIS IS AS INSECURE AS ANYTHING ELSE, WITH OR WITHOUT THESE STRANGE THINGS (INDICATING) THAT ONLY FORCE YOU TO GO BACK TO YOUR ROOM WHEN YOU ARE LATE FOR A MEETING, BUT WOULD NOT PREVENT YOU FROM ENTERING ANYTHING THAT'S DANGEROUS IN A MEETING.

>>SUSAN CRAWFORD: OKAY. THAT'S AN INTERESTING ADDITIONAL TOPIC HERE, SECURITY AT MEETINGS. WE ARE ALL REQUIRED TO WEAR NAME TAGS WITH OUR PICTURE ON THEM. NOT SURE WHERE THAT REQUIREMENT IS COMING FROM, BUT IT SEEMS TO BE HAPPENING AT EACH MEETING. AND SOME PEOPLE ARE TROUBLED BY IT, SOME AREN'T.

GOOD, A HAND FROM -- IN THE BACK.

>>BRET FAUSETT: ME? OKAY. I THINK THERE IS A RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN WHAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT IN THE LAST SEGMENT WHICH IS HAVING A FOOTPRINT AND HAVING OPEN MEETINGS. AND I THINK THE RELATIONSHIP IS WHEN WE INVITE PEOPLE WHO ARE NEW TO ICANN IN, WE WANT TO CREATE A CERTAIN COMFORT LEVEL IN THEIR ABILITY TO WALK IN AND WALK AROUND.

I WOULD LIKE TO THINK OF AN ICANN MEETING SORT OF LIKE A COURTHOUSE, AS WE HAVE THEM IN THE UNITED STATES, WHERE YOU COULD WALK IN TO ANY COURTROOM AND OPEN THE DOOR AND WATCH AND SIT DOWN.

I THINK IT WOULD INCREASE THE COMFORT LEVEL OF NEW PARTICIPANTS IF WE TOLD THEM IN ADVANCE YOU COULD WALK INTO ANY ROOM AT ANY TIME, TALK TO ANYONE. THAT'S THE DEFAULT. IF A MEETING IS CLOSED, IT WILL BE CLEARLY POSTED ON THE OUTSIDE DOOR SO YOU KNOW THAT YOU SHOULD NOT INTERRUPT.

BUT GIVING PEOPLE GREATER COMFORT IN WALKING IN.

>>SUSAN CRAWFORD: SO WE HAVE SEVERAL TOPICS HERE. OPEN VERSUS CLOSED, PUBLIC VERSUS PRIVATE, AND SECURITY.

AND SEBASTIEN, YOU HAVE THE MIKE.

>>SEBASTIEN BACHOLLET: I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHAT OTHER MEETINGS WERE REALLY CLOSED AND ASKED THE GROUPS WHO ORGANIZED THE MEETING CLOSE, WHY THEY ORGANIZED THE MEETING CLOSED. THE GAC IS A GOOD EXAMPLE FOR THAT. WHY IF THEY HAVE OPEN MEETINGS, WHY THE REST IS CLOSED.

AND I WOULD LIKE TO ADD ONE IDEA, AND IT'S A LINK WITH THE FIRST TOPIC ABOUT COMMUNICATION. IS IT AN OPEN MEETING FOR OUTSIDER, FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT PHYSICALLY PRESENT HERE? HERE, WE CAN HAVE SECTIONS, BUT IN SMALL MEETINGS, HOW IT'S DONE, AND WHAT IS THE COST FOR PEOPLE TO BE CONNECTED THROUGH -- NOT INTERNET, BUT THROUGH TELEPHONE.

>>KEITH DAVIDSON: OKAY, I WILL JUST GO BACK TO -- OH, KEITH DAVIDSON. I WILL GO BACK TO SUSAN'S COMMENT ABOUT SECURITY AND SO ON, AND I THINK THE USE OF CARDS, I THINK IT DOES BRING UP THE WHOLE POINT OF THE MEETING RFC WHICH IS SO SAD ON THE ICANN WEB SITE IN TERMS OF WHAT IT'S ADVISING THE HOST TO DO IN THE CASE OF A MEETING.

AND I THINK THE WORST OF IT IS THAT YOU HAVE TO PROVIDE A CARD, AND THERE'S NO REQUIREMENT -- OR NO INSTRUCTION OR NO INFORMATION FOR THE LOCAL HOST TO DERIVE ANY INFORMATION -- OR TO PRECLUDE ANYONE FROM PUTTING IN A FALSE REGISTRATION. IN WELLINGTON, WE HAD BART, THE CARTOON CHARACTER, ON A HUGE NUMBER OF THESE CARDS WHICH ARE QUITE EXPENSIVE ALL AT THE COST OF THE LOCAL HOST AND SO ON. SO MY STRONG RECOMMENDATION IN THAT REGARD IS EITHER THAT YOU DON'T HAVE THE CARDS AT ALL OR THAT YOU REQUIRE -- OR THE LOCAL HOST CAN REQUIRE AN ACTUAL PASSPORT OR SOME FORM OF IDENTIFICATION PRIOR TO THE ISSUE OF THE CARD.

I THINK SECURITY IS GOING TO BE AN ONGOING ISSUE, SO PROBABLY THE PREFERENCE IS THAT AN ID FORM MIGHT BE USED.

>>SUSAN CRAWFORD: I THINK THAT'S A GOOD RECOMMENDATION ESPECIALLY FROM A LOCAL HOST WHO HAS SOME EXPERIENCE WITH THIS.

JACOB.

>>JACOB MALTHOUSE: I AM JACOB MALTHOUSE. I AM AN ICANN STAFF MEMBER, STILL PRETTY NEW. THIS IS MY FIRST-EVER PUBLIC COMMENT. I HAVE TO SAY THESE FORUMS MAKE ME REALLY NERVOUS. I AM NOT A GOOD PUBLIC SPEAKER, SO THE REMOTE PARTICIPATION WEB SITE IS GREAT FOR THOSE WHO ARE A LITTLE BIT SUFFERING OF STAGE FRIGHT.

I WANTED TO READ A QUOTE FROM AN ARTICLE ON TRANSPARENCY THAT WAS WRITTEN IN 2004 BY A GENTLEMAN, DAVID STASAVAGE, JUST FOR EVERYONE'S CONSIDERATION.

ONE OF THE CONCLUSIONS OF HIS ARTICLE IS THAT, AND I AM QUOTING, "ADVOCATES OF DELIBERATIVE DEMOCRACY HAVE EMPHASIZED THAT PUBLIC DELIBERATION IMPROVES THE QUALITY AND LEGITIMACY OF DECISIONS TAKEN.

WHILE THE MODEL I HAVE PRESENTED HERE IS ONE OF BARGAINING WHERE THERE IS NO UNCERTAINTY ABOUT THE LINK BETWEEN POLICIES AND OUTCOMES, MY PROPOSITIONS, NONETHELESS, RAISE AN IMPORTANT QUESTION ABOUT THE BENEFITS OF HOLDING DELIBERATIONS IN PUBLIC. TO THE EXTENT DELIBERATION DEPENDS ON THE WILLINGNESS OF PARTICIPANTS TO ACCURATELY REVEAL PRIVATE INFORMATION ABOUT POLICIES, THEN THIS MIGHT ACTUALLY BE LESS LIKELY TO OCCUR IN A PUBLIC CONTEXT.

MUCH AS REPUTATIONAL CONCERNS GIVE THE BARGAINERS IN MY MODEL AN INCENTIVE TO IGNORE THEIR PRIVATE INFORMATION ABOUT THE OPTIMAL OFFER, PARTICIPANTS IN AN OPEN-DOOR, DELIBERATIVE PROCEEDING MIGHT REFRAIN FROM ACCURATELY REVEALING THEIR PRIVATE INFORMATION FOR EXACTLY THE SAME REASONS.

IT IS PARTICULARLY INTERESTING TO NOTE HERE THAT OBSERVERS OF E.U. COMMITTEES HAVE SUGGESTED THAT THOSE COMMITTEES THAT ARE THE MOST SECRETIVE TEND TO BE THE ONES THAT ARE ALSO CHARACTERIZED BY THE MOST ACTUAL DELIBERATION.

FUTURE RESEARCH COULD EXPLORE THIS QUESTION MORE EXTENSIVELY."

NOW, THE KEY POINT IN THERE IS.

THE WILLINGNESS OF PARTICIPANTS TO ACCURATELY REVEAL PRIVATE INFORMATION AND HOW, IN A PUBLIC FORUM, DO YOU ENCOURAGE THAT OR MAKE IT SAFE FOR PEOPLE TO ACCURATELY REVEAL PRIVATE INFORMATION IN ORDER TO FACILITATE MORE TRANSPARENT AND DELIBERATIVE BARGAINING AND THAT WOULD BE AN INTERESTING DEBATE TO ENGAGE IN, I THINK.

>>SUSAN CRAWFORD: THERE ARE MANY INTERESTING POINTS BURIED IN THERE.

DOES TRANSPARENCY -- SHOULD TRANSPARENCY MEAN EVERYTHING IS ALWAYS PUBLIC? WOULD WE GET BETTER POLICY MAKING THAT WAY OR WOULD THAT INHIBIT SOME GROUPS FROM BEING FRANK ABOUT WHAT THEY ARE ACTUALLY INTERESTED IN.

YOU ARE COMMENT?

>> I WILL POST THAT ARTICLE TO THE WEB SITE.

>>STEVEN METALITZ: STEVEN METALITZ AGAIN.

I WOULD LIKE TO PICK UP ON WHAT WAS JUST SAID.

OUR CONSTITUENCY, THE INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY CONSTITUENCY, AS FAR AS I KNOW, EVERY MEETING WE HAVE HAD AT AN ICANN MEETING, LARGE MEETING IN SUSAN'S PARLANCE IN HER PAPER, HAS BEEN OPEN.

I THINK IT DEPENDS ON THE PURPOSE OF THE MEETING AND WHAT YOU HOPE TO ACHIEVE. IF YOU HOPE TO ACHIEVE A DIVERSITY OF VIEWS AND A FREE WHEELING DISCUSSION AND INFORMING A LOT OF PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON, THEN CERTAINLY THE MEETING SHOULD BE OPEN.

IF YOU ARE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT IS YOUR POSITION ON A POLICY ISSUE, THEN YOU MAY WELL HAVE MORE SUCCESS IF YOUR MEETING IS LIMITED TO THOSE MEMBERS OF YOUR CONSTITUENCY OR THE GROUP THAT IS GOING TO BE BOUND BY THE POSITION.

I DO AGREE THAT WE SHOULD HAVE SOME CLEAR UNDERSTANDINGS OF WHAT A PUBLIC MEETING IS, WHAT THAT MEANS AND WHAT A CLOSED MEETING IS, WHAT THAT MEANS, AND ALONG WITH THE AGENDAS THAT SHOULD BE PUBLISHED WELL IN ADVANCE OF OUR MEETINGS, THERE SHOULD BE AN INDICATION OF WHICH MEETINGS ARE PUBLIC UNDER THAT PROTOCOL AND WHICH MEETINGS ARE CLOSED UNDER THAT PROTOCOL.

BUT I THINK IF YOU LOOK AT THE RANGE OF TRANSPARENCY AND ACCOUNTABILITY ISSUES THAT ICANN HAS TO GRAPPLE WITH, I DON'T THINK THAT HAVING A DEFAULT THAT EVERY MEETING IS OPEN REALLY WOULD RANK VERY HIGH ON THE LIST.

>>SUSAN CRAWFORD: OKAY.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I APPRECIATE THOSE COMMENTS.

THERE IS A LOT BURIED HERE AND WE ARE VEERING FROM SUBJECT TO SUBJECT. IT WAS INEVITABLE BECAUSE WE HAVE A COMPRESSED PERIOD OF TIME AND A LOT OF INTERESTING THINGS TO TALK ABOUT.

IN THE BACK HERE, IS THERE ANYBODY WHO WANTS TO SAY SOMETHING ABOUT MEETING PROTOCOL? UNDERSTANDINGS THAT SHOULD BE IN PLACE FOR OPEN VERSUS CLOSED? SECURITY VERSUS NONSECURITY, PAYMENT OF A FEE? ANYTHING ELSE? NO.

THIS IS THE ICANN TRADITION. PEOPLE ARE BURIED IN THEIR LAPTOPS ALL THE WAY AROUND.

YES, BERTRAND DE LA CHAPELLE.

>>BERTRAND DE LA CHAPELLE: THANK YOU, BERTRAND DE LA CHAPELLE AGAIN.

JUST TO SUPPORT THE NOTION THAT THE QUESTION IS NOT EXCLUSIVELY OPEN, OR ALL MEETINGS CLOSED FOR CONSTITUENCIES. THE KEY CHALLENGE IS TO FIND THE RIGHT BALANCE BETWEEN WHEN A GROUP HAS A NEED TO GATHER AMONG ITSELF TO ADDRESS ISSUES THAT THEY CARE ABOUT. I SUPPOSE ALL CONSTITUENCIES MIGHT HAVE MOMENTS WHERE THEY WANT TO BE AMONG THEMSELVES TO DISCUSS ISSUES THAT THEY REALLY CARE ABOUT, BUT THE IMPORTANT THING THAT IN ADDITION, THERE IS THE SECOND DIMENSION WHERE TRANS-CONSTITUENCY AND AN ISSUE-BASED EXCHANGE OF VIEWS IS CONDUCTED. AND THOSE MEETINGS HAVE TO BE OPEN. BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT ABOUT SO MUCH DECISION-MAKING, ESPECIALLY EARLY ON, THEY ARE ABOUT PAINTING THE ELEPHANT COMPLETELY. MEANING HAVING ALL THE DIFFERENT VIEWPOINTS IN THE FAMOUS STORY OF THE FIVE BLIND MEN AND THE ELEPHANT.

SO TRANS-CONSTITUENCY MEETINGS, TO HAVE A COMPLETE PICTURE, HAVE TO BE OPEN AND INTERACTIVE. SOMETIMES CONSTITUENCIES MIGHT WANT TO HAVE CLOSED MEETINGS.

>>PAUL LEVINS: THANK YOU.

IT'S PAUL LEVINS AGAIN.

JUST WANTING TO SAY THAT SO OFTEN IN THE PROCESS OF ANALYSIS, WE CAN FOCUS ON ISSUES OF CRITICALITY, IF I CAN PUT IT THAT WAY, THINGS THAT WE ARE CRITICAL OF.

I DO THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO RECOGNIZE THAT WE DO A LOT OF THINGS RIGHT.

WE DO GET A LOT OF STUFF RIGHT, AND THAT WE ARE NOW STARTING TO PUSH THE BOUNDARIES IN A GOOD WAY.

I'M NOT SAYING THAT WE'RE PUSHING THE BOUNDARIES IN A WAY THAT STRESSES PEOPLE NECESSARILY.

BUT WE ARE MOVING INTO GOOD AND NEW TERRITORY.

AND I JUST WANTED TO PUT ON THE RECORD THE FACT THAT I DO THINK -- I THINK WHEN I FIRST STARTED, I MADE THE OBSERVATION THAT I THOUGHT A LOT OF THE TRANSPARENCY ISSUE WAS ALSO TIED UP WITH ISSUES OF ACCESS, PARTICULARLY TO DO WITH OUR WEB SITE.

AND WE WILL BE MAKING IMPROVEMENTS TO OUR WEB SITE.

THE GNSO, THE LSE GNSO REPORT THAT WAS DONE STRESSED THE IMPORTANCE OF THAT.

AND WE WILL BE MAKING THOSE IMPROVEMENTS.

BUT I DO WANT TO GO BACK TO THAT POINT THAT I MADE AT THE BEGINNING, WHICH IS THAT WE SHOULDN'T THROW THE BABY OUT WITH THE BATH WATER.

WE ARE DOING A LOT OF STUFF RIGHT AND WE SHOULD RECOGNIZE THAT AND REINFORCE THAT.

>>SUSAN CRAWFORD: YES, WE ALL LOOK FORWARD TO THE WEB SITE WORK.

AND I KNOW IT'S AN ENORMOUS UNDERTAKING FOR ICANN.

WE'VE BEEN TOLD THAT THE ICANN WEB SITE HAS AS MUCH CONTENT ON IT AS AN ONLINE NEWSPAPER SITE, ENORMOUS NUMBERS OF DOCUMENTS.

AND THE TRICK IS TO MAKE THEM MORE EASILY SEARCHABLE AND FINDABLE AND ORGANIZED IN A WAY THAT THEY'RE ACCESSIBLE TO PEOPLE WHO ARE INTERESTED.

BUT WE ARE DOING A LOT RIGHT, AS PAUL SAYS.

WE MAY HAVE EXHAUSTED THE MEETINGS PROTOCOL TOPIC.

LET'S GO ON, SEE WHAT'S NEXT.

OH, MEETING STRUCTURE.

THIS IS THE THIRD PORTION.

THIS TIME AROUND, WE STARTED WITH A PUBLIC FORUM ON MONDAY DEDICATED MOSTLY TO THE PRESIDENT'S REPORT, TO AN UPDATE ON IGF, AND AN UPDATE FROM THE PRESIDENT'S STRATEGIC COMMITTEE, FOLLOWED BY A PUBLIC FORUM PERIOD.

THAT WAS A CHANGE.

THESE ARE COMMENTS THAT WE'VE RECEIVED IN RESPONSE TO THE QUESTIONNAIRE.

WOULDN'T IT BE GOOD TO SEE MORE INTERACTION AMONG BOARD MEMBERS IN PUBLIC BOARD MEETINGS.

A COMMENT ABOUT THE GAC, SAYING WHY AREN'T THEIR MEETINGS MORE OPEN.

THIS SEEMS TO BE A REVISITING OF THE TOPIC WE JUST COVERED.

ON STRUCTURE, MORE FACE TIME FOR WORKING GROUPS CALLED FOR, MORE MARKET TUTORIALS ASKED FOR -- AND THIS IS BERTRAND'S COMMENT, WHICH HE HAS MADE A COUPLE OF TIMES HERE -- MORE CROSS-CUTTING, SINGLE-ISSUE MEETINGS, WHERE CONSTITUENCIES FROM ACROSS ICANN COME TOGETHER TO CONSIDER A TOPIC IN A PARTICULAR SETTING.

ON THE SUBJECT OF MEETING STRUCTURE, WE'RE VERY INTERESTED IN YOUR FEEDBACK, YOUR COMMENTS ABOUT HOW THESE WEEKS ARE SET UP.

THESE WEEKS OF TIME WE SPEND TOGETHER IN DIFFERENT PLACES.

YES.

>>VANDA SCARTEZINI: WELL, LET ME GIVE YOU SOME FEEDBACK I HEARD AROUND HERE TODAY, OKAY?

ONE IS IN FAVOR, IS IN FAVOR OF THE -- WHAT WE DID ON SUNDAY, THAT WAS AN OPENING FOR THE NEWCOMERS, EXPRESSING EACH ONE OF US THAT WAS INVITED TO HELP PAUL TO OPEN THIS MEETING, EXPRESSING WHY YOU WERE IN SOME WAY INVOLVED WITH ICANN.

SO WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS?

SO IT'S FOR -- FOR NEWCOMERS, IT WAS VERY IMPORTANT.

PEOPLE WERE VERY PLEASED WITH THAT.

SO WE HAVE HERE A LOT OF PEOPLE FROM CARIBBEAN, FROM SOUTH AMERICA, AND FROM AFRICA, MANY PLACES, TAIWAN, AND OTHERS.

AND IT WAS VERY -- THEY WERE PLEASED WITH THAT.

THE AGAINST ONE WAS ABOUT WHAT TO DO WHEN THEY COME HERE, FOR INSTANCE, AFTER THIS FIRST MOVEMENT AND CEREMONY, WHAT THEY COULD EXPECT, COMMERCIAL, BUSINESS AREAS, WHERE IS THE PLACE WHERE PEOPLE CAN SAY, "WOW, THAT'S AN OPPORTUNITY.

YOU NEED TO TALK ABOUT, YOU NEED TO LEARN ABOUT THAT."

SO WHERE ARE THESE MEETINGS?

THEY DON'T SHOW UP.

EVEN THE PEOPLE IN THE COMMERCIAL COMMUNITY, THEY ARE LOCKED IN SOME WAY.

THEY ARE NOT AVAILABLE FOR TALKING, FOR EXCHANGE MUCH OPINIONS AND SO ON.

SO I BELIEVE FOR REGIONAL -- YOU KNOW, THE MEANING TO BE HERE MUST BE OFFER SOME OPPORTUNITY TO COMMUNICATE MORE EASILY WITH THE PEOPLE HERE.

IF YOU DON'T DO THAT, WE DON'T NEED TO COME.

>>SUSAN CRAWFORD: OKAY.

SO A COUPLE OF COMMENTS IN THERE.

WHAT DO YOU DO AFTER THE OPENING TUTORIAL, INTRODUCING YOU TO ICANN, WHERE DO YOU GO NEXT?

WHERE'S THE POINT OF INTAKE FOR A PERSON WHO IS NEW TO ICANN?

COULD WE DO A BETTER JOB AT INTRODUCING THEM REGIONALLY WHEN WE ARRIVE IN A PARTICULAR CITY TO FINDING PLACES FOR THEM TO GO?

YES, AMADEU.

>>AMADEU ABRIL I ABRIL: OKAY, AMADEU ABRIL I ABRIL ONCE AGAIN.

PROBABLY SOMETHING THAT I WOULD SAY IS OUTDATED, BECAUSE AFTER ATTENDING 23 CONSECUTIVE MEETINGS, I MISSED THE LAST TWO.

AND THE IMPORTANT THING IS THAT I THINK THAT THE MEETING STRUCTURE IS GETTING BETTER AND BETTER OVER TIME, WHICH IS GOOD, INSTEAD OF, YOU KNOW, GOING WORSE AND WORSE.

BUT I STILL HAVE ONE PROBLEM THAT'S ONE OF MY MAIN COMPLAINTS, AND IT'S RELATED TO WHAT IS BEING SAID NOW.

THE STRUCTURE STILL IS TOO MUCH DEVOTED TO THESE SMALL GROUPS THAT RUN THE SHOW WITHOUT TOO MUCH, YOU KNOW, JOINT DISCUSSION.

I MEAN, THE REAL THING, AS WAS SAID BEFORE BY BRET, THE REAL DIALOGUE HAPPENS IN THE SMALL GROUPS, WHICH IS GOOD AND BAD AT THE SAME TIME.

IT'S NATURAL, BUT IT'S BAD AS IT'S STRUCTURED NOW.

BECAUSE IT'S STRUCTURED MORE, WHERE IS MY FAMILY WHO IS INTERESTED IN THAT TOPIC.

ONE OF MY -- WAS EXPERIENCE MEETING THE BOARD AS A NON-COM, YOU RUN FROM MEETING TO MEETING, AND YOU REPEAT EXACTLY THE SAME DISCUSSIONS WITH DIFFERENT PEOPLE AND DIFFERENT OUTCOMES.

AND THEN NOTHING HAPPENS NEXT.

SO THINGS THAT WERE VERY GOOD, FIRST, SEPARATING THE PUBLIC FORUM FROM THE BOARD, AND DIVIDING THAT UP IN SOME PART EVEN BEFORE THE CONSTITUENCIES.

WHAT IS STILL BAD?

AS IT WAS SAID, YOU DON'T HAVE STILL THE SENSE OF WHERE'S THE PLACE FOR DISCUSSING THINGS IF YOU DON'T BELONG TO A VERY SMALL CLAN.

NOW, WHAT'S BETTER?

NOW IN THE PUBLIC FORUMS, WE HAD -- WE START HAVING BOARD MEMBERS AND STAFF ATTENDING ALL THESE -- WELL, THE STAFF WAS ALWAYS THERE, BUT, YOU KNOW, BOARD MEMBERS AND GAC MEMBERS BEING IN THE GNSO PUBLIC FORUM, IT'S SOMETHING THAT IN A YEAR AND A HALF NEVER HAPPENED AND ONLY THE DEDICATED STAFF DID AND OTHERS WERE IN PARALLEL MEETINGS.

WHAT WE NEED MORE, WHAT'S REALLY BAD, THIS, THAT TABLE OUT THERE AND THE FLOWERS AND THE MIKE HERE, AND THAT'S A QUESTION ABOUT THE STYLE OF THE STRUCTURE.

WE HAVE A WHOLE DAY DIVIDED UP FOR PUBLIC FORUM, BUT THEN WE FILL UP THE FORUM -- THE PUBLIC FORUM WITH REPORTS THAT WE COULD READ, SAYING, "WE HAVE DONE NOTHING. WE WILL MEET NEXT WEEK," OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

OR "WE'VE DONE A LOT AND THESE ARE THE MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE."

SECOND, WE HAVE, YOU KNOW, LONG PANELS, YOU KNOW, LIKE ANYTHING THAT WE DISCUSS, THEY ARE FILLED UP WITH PANELS.

AND WHEN WE SHOULD START THE DISCUSSION IS THE VOTED FOR LACK OF DIALOGUE.

IS JUST FAIRNESS, ALLOW EACH ONE THREE MINUTES, FOUR MINUTES.

THE FIRST THING THAT'S SAID IS THAT, "WE ARE RUNNING OUT OF TIME."

THE SECOND IS, "THANKS. NEXT SPEAKER."

SO THERE IS NEVER DIALOGUE.

THIS IS A QUESTION OF STYLE MORE THAN STRUCTURE.

USING THE SAME TIME, WE COULD STRUCTURE THINGS MORE LIKE WE ARE DOING HERE.

OR, YOU KNOW, THE GNSO AND THE PUBLIC FORUM ARE EVOLVING, BUT WE NEED TO GO FORWARD AND TO PROMOTE DIALOGUE IN COMMON, NOT JUST IN THE SMALL GROUPS ACCORDING TO THE FAMILY YOU BELONG FOR SOME STRANGE MARRIAGE FIVE YEARS AGO.

>>BRET FAUSETT: ON THE MEETING STRUCTURE, ICANN HAS A NUMBER OF WAYS OF GETTING INFORMATION OUT FROM ICANN TO THE COMMUNITY.

AND, IN FACT, I THINK OVER THE LAST 60 TO 90 DAYS, ICANN'S COMMUNICATIONS HAS IMPROVED BY AN ORDER OF MAGNITUDE.

I MEAN, WE'RE JUST GETTING LOTS AND LOTS OF REPORTS.

IT'S BEEN TERRIFIC.

ALL THIS IS TO SAY THAT THERE'S NO EXCUSE FOR ANYONE EVER READING TO ME WHEN I'M HERE IN PERSON.

YOU CAN DO REPORTING IN WAYS THAT ARE TIME-DISTRIBUTED, GIVING TO PEOPLE IN REMOTE LOCATIONS.

THIS TIME TOGETHER IS VERY SPECIAL, BECAUSE IT GIVES US AN OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE A DIALOGUE, THINGS THAT WE CAN'T DO THE REST OF THE YEAR.

SO I WOULD LIKE TO SEE US GET RID OF ALL THE REPORTING AND MOVE THAT OFFLINE EITHER BEFORE OR AFTER THE MEETINGS.

WE'VE ALL GOT LONG PLANE FLIGHTS TO ENJOY ALL THOSE REPORTS.

AND I THINK WE COULD ALSO REDUCE THE TIME OF THIS MEETING.

I THINK MAYBE THAT'S COMING UP IN A NEXT SEGMENT.

BUT IF WE CAN TAKE BETTER ADVANTAGE OF THIS TIME, WE CAN MAYBE LOSE A DAY OR TWO.

>>NAOMASA MARUYAMA: OKAY.

SO I WANT TO COMMENT ON THE ORIENTATION SESSION SOMEBODY MENTIONED ABOUT.

>>SUSAN CRAWFORD: YES.

>>NAOMASA MARUYAMA: HERE'S MY SUBORDINATE.

SHE IS -- FOR HER, THIS IS THE SECOND ICANN MEETING.

AND LAST TIME, SHE ATTENDED THE ORIENTATION SESSION.

AND SHE SAID THAT IT WAS PERFECTLY UNSUITABLE FOR THE NEWCOMERS.

>>SUSAN CRAWFORD: AT LEAST WE'RE PERFECTLY UNSUITABLE.

>>NAOMASA MARUYAMA: AND ALSO, I -- THIS TIME, I PARTICIPATED IN THE ROUNDTABLE ORIENTATION SESSION, AND I FELT THE SAME THING.

AND WHAT'S THE REASON FOR THAT?

I THINK THE -- ALL THE TOPICS DISCUSSED HERE HAVE OWN HISTORY.

FOR EXAMPLE, THE DOMAIN NAME MARKETPLACE SESSION, WE HAD THE -- THE SAME -- SESSION OF THE SAME NAME LAST TIME.

AND THIS TIME, TODAY'S MARKETPLACE SESSION, WAS THE CONTINUATION OF THAT, OF THE LAST MEETING.

SO WITHOUT KNOWING ABOUT THE PREVIOUS DISCUSSIONS, ANYONE CANNOT PARTICIPATE IN THE DISCUSSION OR EVEN CANNOT UNDERSTAND WHAT IS TALKED ABOUT.

SO IT'S VERY -- I THINK IT'S VERY IMPORTANT TO EXPLAIN TO THE NEWCOMERS THAT THE TOPIC OF -- HISTORY OF EACH TOPIC.

AND THAT IS VERY IMPORTANT.

AND IN THAT ASPECT, THE ORIENTATION IS NOT SUCCESSFUL.

THAT IS SOMETHING THAT SHOULD BE IMPROVED, I THINK.

>>SUSAN CRAWFORD: TERRIFIC.

SO WE HAVE A STRONG COMMENT ABOUT NO READING OF REPORTS, A STRONG COMMENT ABOUT MAKING ORIENTATION MUCH MORE USEFUL.

PLEASE INTRODUCE YOURSELF.

>> JON NEVETT: SURE, THANKS, SUSAN.

JON NEVETT FROM NETWORK SOLUTIONS.

I'D LIKE TO ENCOURAGE MORE INTERACTION BETWEEN THE CONSTITUENCIES.

I THINK SOMEONE CALLED -- I THINK AMADEU CALLED IT A CLAN APPROACH, THAT THERE'S A LOT OF INDIVIDUAL MEETINGS AND AN INSUFFICIENT NUMBER OF CROSS MEETINGS.

YOU KNOW, THE REGISTRARS WILL MEET, THE REGISTRARS, REGISTRIES MEET WITH THE REGISTRIES, ALAC MEETS WITH ALAC, AND THERE'S NOT ENOUGH INTERACTION EITHER WITHIN THE GNSO OR BETWEEN GNSO ORGANIZATIONS AND OTHER ORGANIZATIONS.

SO ONE METHOD MAY BE WHAT YOU HAVE UP THERE, WHICH IS MORE CROSS-CUTTING, SINGLE-ISSUE MEETINGS THAT ENCOURAGES COMMUNICATIONS BETWEEN FOLKS IN THE VARIOUS GROUPS.

AND, OF COURSE, THOSE SHOULD BE PUBLICIZED, WELL PUBLICIZED, WELL BEFORE THE MEETINGS.

AND THAT GETS BACK TO THE FIRST CATEGORY OF ISSUES YOU HAD RAISED.

AND IF WE WERE TO ENCOURAGE MORE ATTENDANCE AND MORE -- FOR EXAMPLE, MORE INTEREST FROM THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY, HAVING THOSE AGENDAS UP EARLY WILL HELP ENCOURAGE ATTENDANCE.

>>ADAM PEAKE: ADAM PEAKE AGAIN.

I JUST WANTED TO MAKE A COMMENT ABOUT THE MOVING OF THE OPEN FORUM TO THE FIRST DAY.

AND I THOUGHT THAT WAS A VERY GOOD INNOVATION.

AND THAT SESSION COULD BE USED VERY USEFULLY TO SET UP THE ISSUES THAT WE NEED TO DISCUSS AS A COMMUNITY FOR THE REST OF THE WEEK.

SO PLANNING THAT SESSION FOR PARTICULARLY THAT TYPE OF ISSUE IN MIND IS IMPORTANT, I THINK.

AND I WAS SOMEWHAT DISAPPOINTED THAT WE DIDN'T GET A CHANCE TO HAVE THE NOMINATING COMMITTEE DURING THAT SESSION, AS WAS PLANNED, BECAUSE THAT IS THE KIND OF INFORMATION THAT CAN BE DISCUSSED BROADLY WITHIN THE COMMUNITY DURING THE WEEK SO THAT THE COMMITTEE CAN TAKE FEEDBACK BEFORE IT STARTS AGAIN IN THE NEW YEAR.

SO PLANNING THAT OPENING SESSION, WHICH IS A GREAT INNOVATION, IS SOMETHING I HOPE WILL CONTINUE.

>>WENDY SELTZER: WENDY SELTZER.

QUICK COMMENT, AND LOTS OF MY CONCERNS HAVE BEEN ADDRESSED EVEN IN THE COMMENTS I'VE ALREADY HEARD.

BUT SCHEDULING ADVANCED -- ANNOUNCED AS SOON AS IT IS KNOWN AND MADE AVAILABLE SO THAT OTHER PEOPLE WHO NEED TO SCHEDULE THE INDIVIDUAL SMALL GROUP MEETINGS CAN DO THAT IN INTERSTICES WENT THEY WON'T BE MISSING OTHER MEETINGS THAT THEY SHOULD BE A PART OF WOULD BE VERY HELPFUL.

AND I AGREE WITH THE OTHER COMMENTS ABOUT THE IMPORTANCE OF FACE-TO-FACE INTERACTIONS AND DIALOGUE MUCH MORE THAN REPORTS READ FROM ON HIGH.

>>SUSAN CRAWFORD: THAT'S TERRIFIC.

WE'RE HEARING THIS COMMENT NOW MANY TIMES.

TO HAVE MORE CROSS-CONSTITUENCY DISCUSSION, MORE DIALOGUE, MORE TIME TOGETHER.

WE'RE ALSO HEARING THAT TIME IN SMALL GROUPS IS VERY INTERESTING AND VERY HELPFUL.

SO THESE MEETINGS, MAYBE THEY'LL BE A MONTH LONG.

WE'LL JUST SPEND ALL OF OUR TIME TOGETHER.

WE'LL TRY TO PLAN THIS WELL.

YES.

OKAY.

LAST TOPIC ON MEETING STRUCTURE.

>>MARILYN CADE: I GUESS I'M GOING TO -- IT'S MARILYN CADE.

I GUESS I'M GOING TO -- AND I'M SORRY WE'VE LOST THE BOARD MEMBERS, MOST OF THEM, SINCE IT'S LARGELY ABOUT THEM.

WE ARE A -- AND I APPRECIATE THE COMMENTS THAT PAUL MADE, BECAUSE I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO KEEP IN MIND WHO WE ARE.

AND THAT STANDARDS DEVELOPMENT AND POLICY DEVELOPMENT ARE ACTUALLY INCREDIBLY INTENSE.

WORKING INITIATIVES AND FACE TIME IS INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT FOR THAT.

BUT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT IS UNFORTUNATELY HAPPENING, AND UNLESS WE CONSCIOUSLY DEAL -- CONSCIOUSLY TRY TO AVOID THIS, OUR BOARD GETS SO SCHEDULED UP IN WORKING WITH EACH OTHER OR WORKING IN A PANEL FORUM IN FRONT OF US THAT THERE IS VERY LITTLE OPPORTUNITY FOR THEM TO INTERACT WITH THE COMMUNITY.

AND I THINK AT THIS MEETING, THERE WERE CONCERTED EFFORTS MADE TO DO THAT.

THE GAC WAS ABLE TO ATTEND THE PUBLIC FORUMS ON MONDAY.

BUT, YOU KNOW, I KNOW IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO DO.

BUT I'LL JUST MENTION THAT FOR MANY PEOPLE IN THE COMMUNITY WHO DON'T KNOW THE BOARD MEMBERS, THE ONLY OPPORTUNITIES THEY HAVE TO INTERACT WITH THE BOARD MEMBERS ARE IN THE -- IN THE EVENING AT A SOCIAL EVENT OR OTHER THINGS OF THAT NATURE.

AND THOSE ARE VERY IMPORTANT ADDITIONAL INTERACTIONS FOR MOST OF THE MEMBERS OF THE COMMUNITY.

>>SUSAN CRAWFORD: ANY COMMENTS FROM STAFF OR BOARD ABOUT THAT PARTICULAR COMMENT, THE UNAVAILABILITY OF THE BOARD?

>>MARILYN CADE: ACTUALLY, I WAS TALKING ABOUT HOW THEY HAVE TO WORK MUCH TOO HARD WITH EACH OTHER.

>>THOMAS NARTEN: WELL, SO THIS IS THOMAS NARTEN HERE.

I GUESS I HEAR -- THERE'S -- I'M NOT SURE FROM THE BULLET EXACTLY WHICH -- THERE'S A NUMBER OF INTERACTIONS YOU HAVE.

AND, LIKE, ONE OF THE THINGS YOU DIDN'T MENTION IN THE BOARD BEING SCHEDULED IS WE HAVE ALMOST A FULL DAY WHERE WE'RE MEETING WITH INDIVIDUAL CONSTITUENCIES, WHICH IS FACE-TO-FACE TIME, THOUGH IT MIGHT NOT BE CONSIDERED PUBLIC FACE-TO-FACE TIME, WHICH IS DIFFERENT.

BUT I THINK I GENERALLY AGREE WITH YOU, THAT I THINK MORE INTERACTION IS GOOD.

AND IF WE COULD, JUST, LIKE -- IF WE COULD FIGURE OUT HOW TO AVOID DOING SOME OF THE BOARD WORK DURING THESE WEEKS BECAUSE IT'S CONVENIENT TO DO SO WHEN WE'RE ALL TOGETHER AND FOCUS MORE ON THE OUTREACH AND TALKING TO THE COMMUNITY, THAT WOULD BE A GOOD THING TO DO.

>>SUSAN CRAWFORD: LAST ONE ON THIS, YES.

>>VANDA SCARTEZINI: I TOTALLY AGREE.

BECAUSE IN -- IF YOU -- WE COULD DIVIDE BETTER OUR TIME AS A BOARD TO BOARD.

WE COULD EXPAND FOR DINNERS, COCKTAILS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

WE ARE RUNNING OUT OF TIME ALL THE TIME.

SO ON TUESDAY, WE WORKED TILL MIDNIGHT.

YESTERDAY, TILL 11:00.

SO WE MISS EVERYTHING.

WE CANNOT GET TOGETHER WITH THE OTHERS.

SO THAT'S THE MAIN POINT THAT I BELIEVE WE NEED TO DEAL WITH.

SO PROBABLY WE ARE ARRIVING EARLY, TWO DAYS EARLY, MOSTLY.

SO MAYBE WE NEED TO THINK ABOUT, YOU KNOW, IMPROVING OR ENLARGE THESE TWO DAYS AND FORGET ABOUT, YOU KNOW, GET IN THE NIGHT, LEAVING THIS OPEN FOR JUST TALK WITH THE PEOPLE.

BECAUSE IT'S IMPOSSIBLE TO DO, AT MIDNIGHT, YOU LOOK AROUND, NOBODY THERE.

SO YOU GO TO SLEEP.

>>SUSAN CRAWFORD: OKAY.

LAST COMMENT ON THIS ONE.

THOMAS.

>>THOMAS NARTEN: LET ME MAKE JUST ONE MORE SORT OF COMMENT, OBSERVATION ON THE TENSION WE HAVE HERE WITH SCHEDULING OF BOARD TIME.

WE HAVE THE PUBLIC BOARD MEETING ON FRIDAYS.

IT TURNS OUT THAT WE SPEND EASILY A FULL AFTERNOON IN PRIVATE SESSION PREPARING FOR THAT.

NOW, YOU CAN ARGUE THAT THAT'S NOT -- WE SHOULDN'T BE DOING THAT, WE WOULD BE BETTER OFF USING THAT TIME MEETING WITH THE COMMUNITY.

BUT IT'S HARD TO SEE, THEN, HOW WE WOULD ACTUALLY HAVE THE PUBLIC MEETING ON THE FRIDAY.

AND THERE'S BEEN CONCERN EXPRESSED THAT THAT'S ACTUALLY AN IMPORTANT PART OF THE MEETINGS, HAVING AT LEAST, YOU KNOW, THREE REGULAR MEETINGS IN THE PUBLIC WHERE THE BOARD MEETS.

>>MARILYN CADE: SO, THEN, I'M GOING TO SORT OF RESPOND TO THAT.

IT'S MARILYN CADE.

I'M GOING TO REMIND ALL OF US THAT WE ARE STILL A VERY YOUNG ORGANIZATION, AND SO IT'S VERY IMPORTANT WE'RE HAVING THIS CONVERSATION ABOUT HOW TO CONTINUALLY IMPROVE HOW WE INTERACT WITH EACH OTHER.

AND TO ALSO NOTE THAT FOR MANY OF US, THE MORE WE'RE ABLE TO IMPROVE THE STAFF SUPPORT TO ANALYSIS AND OPTIONS DOCUMENTS AND OTHER KIND OF TOOLS THAT WE MIGHT NOT HAVE FULLY ON BOARD NOW, THE MAYBE MORE IMPROVED AND LESSEN THE AMOUNT OF TIME THAT YOU HAVE TO SPEND.

I THINK, THOUGH, ONE OF THE COMMENTS -- THE BULLETS UP HERE, MORE INTERACTION AMONG BOARD MEMBERS IN BOARD MEETINGS,S HAVE ATTENDED EVERY BOARD MEETING EXCEPT SINGAPORE, I WILL SAY, YOU KNOW, I THINK WE'RE LOOKING A LITTLE STAGED IN OUR INTERACTION DURING THE BOARD MEETING, AND MAYBE IT'S JUST ME, BUT I'D LIKE FOR THE BOARD MEMBERS TO TALK TO EACH OTHER ABOUT THE DECISION THAT THEY'RE ABOUT TO MAKE.

OTHERWISE, WHAT I AM GOING TO GET FROM THEM IS A WRITTEN -- A WRITTEN POSITION STATEMENT ON THEIR VOTE.

I'M NOT SURE THAT'S HOW YOU WANT TO COMMUNICATE WITH THE COMMUNITY WHEN YOU'RE WORKING WITH US FACE TO FACE.

>>SUSAN CRAWFORD: OKAY.

WE'RE A CHARMING BUNCH, AND WE WOULD LIKE TO, I THINK, BE MORE INTERACTIVE, IF WE COULD.

THOMAS, DO YOU WANT ONE LAST WORD ON THIS?

>>THOMAS NARTEN: I MIGHT NOT BE THE BEST PERSON TO COMMENT ON THIS AS I'M A LIAISON, SO I DON'T ACTUALLY VOTE.

BUT I THINK IT'S ACTUALLY INEVITABLE THAT IF YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE A PUBLIC BOARD MEETING THAT IT'S GOING TO BE SOMEWHAT SCRIPTED.

ANYBODY WHO HAS RUN MEETINGS WHERE YOU HAVE SUBSTANTIVE DISCUSSION KNOWS THAT AS PART OF PREPARING FOR THAT, THERE'S GIVE-AND-TAKE, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE LOOK A LITTLE BIT FOOLISH WHEN THEY HAVEN'T READ THE MATERIALS AND THEY ASK A DUMB QUESTION.

ASK YOU JUST DON'T DO THAT IN PUBLIC.

SO THE WAY YOU AVOID THAT IS BY PREPARING IN ADVANCE.

THERE'S A TENSION THERE:

>>SUSAN CRAWFORD: THERE'S A COUPLE OF MORE TOPICS FOR THIS SESSION, NOT THAT WE HAVE EXHAUSTED MEETING STRUCTURE.

TO BEGIN WITH THE PUBLIC FORUM.

WE'VE GOT THAT.

WE'RE GOING TO TRY TO TALK ABOUT THE BOARD MEETING.

WE HAVEN'T REALLY DELVED INTO THE FIVE-DAY FORMAT.

BUT I THINK THAT MIGHT HAVE TO BE A TOPIC FOR ANOTHER DAY.

THESE ARE OPPORTUNITIES FOR US.

OKAY, MEETINGS LOCATIONS.

THESE ARE A COUPLE OF COMMENTS THAT I GOT IN RESPONSE TO THE QUESTIONNAIRE, SAYING, THESE THREE MEETINGS SHOULD TAKE PLACE IN LARGER METROPOLITAN LOCATIONS THAT ARE MORE ACCESSIBLE DIRECTLY FOR INTERNATIONAL TRAVELERS.

HAVING THE THIRD MEETING ALWAYS AT THE SAME TIME IN THE SAME PLACE WOULD MAKE PLANNING EASIER, ANOTHER COMMENT OVER THE E-MAIL.

THE PAPER DISCUSSES THE MANY REGIONAL OUTREACH EFFORTS THAT ICANN IS MAKING TO HAVE SMALLER MEETINGS, TO EMPOWER PEOPLE TO LEARN ABOUT ICANN, TO BECOME MORE KNOWLEDGEABLE ABOUT WHAT IT DOES, AND THE INTERPLAY BETWEEN THOSE REGIONAL MEETINGS AND THE LARGE MEETINGS MAY NOT BE WIDELY KNOWN.

THERE'S A LOT GOING ON AT ICANN THAT IS NOT JUST AT THESE THREE LARGE MEETINGS.

THE PAPER SUGGESTS AN OPTION OF THINKING ABOUT A SET LOCATION FOR ONE OR MORE OF THESE MEETINGS, BOTH BECAUSE OF THE BURDENS ON LOCAL HOSTS IN RUNNING THESE MEETINGS AND BECAUSE OF THE PREDICTABILITY THAT MIGHT BE ENCOURAGED BY HAVING A HUB FOR ONE OR MORE MEETINGS.

THERE ARE OBVIOUS DOWNSIDES TO HAVING A HUB APPROACH TO MEETINGS.

WE LEARN A LOT ABOUT OTHER COUNTRIES, OTHER CULTURES, BY GOING THERE.

WE INVITE OTHER PEOPLE INTO ICANN.

WE FORM THESE FOOTPRINTS THAT WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT WITH OTHER PARTICIPANTS.

BUT IT'S A SUGGESTION ON THE TABLE TO THINK ABOUT HAVING A HUB LOCATION NOT NECESSARILY INSIDE THE AIRPORT, BUT AT A MAJOR AIRLINE HUB AROUND THE WORLD FOR ONE OF THESE MEETINGS.

THE FINAL TOPIC IS WHETHER WE SHOULD HAVE THREE MEETINGS OR FEWER PER YEAR.

SO SINCE WE HAVE JUST A FEW MINUTES LEFT, I'D LIKE TO CALL FOR A COMMENT ON THESE TWO TOPICS TOGETHER: LOCATIONS FOR MEETINGS AND TWO OR THREE --

ACTUALLY, COULD WE HAVE PEOPLE WHO HAVEN'T SPOKEN BEFORE? OH, OUR CEO. GREAT!

>>PAUL TWOMEY: INTERESTING RESPONSE.

CAN I JUST -- I'M GOING TO JUST THROW ISSUES UP, IF YOU LIKE.

IF WE HAVE -- ONE OF THE THINGS I THINK RELATED TO THIS DISCUSSION IS ACTUALLY SPONSORSHIP FOR MEETINGS AND APPROPRIATE PARTIES TO BE RAISING SPONSORSHIP FOR MEETINGS. WHEN WE MOVED FROM NOT HAVING MEETINGS IN CALIFORNIA, IN LOS ANGELES, AND WE HAD MEETINGS NOW THE WAY WE HAVE THEM, THE IDEA OF A HOST COMMITTEE OR A HOST GROUP COMING TOGETHER WHO TOOK ON THE FINANCIAL LIABILITY FOR THE MEETING IS THE MODEL THAT DEVELOPED. THIS WORKING THROUGH WITH SPONSORS IS DONE BY THE HOSTS, NOT DONE BY ICANN. SO THE ISSUE WHICH DOES EMERGE, WHICH IS ONE OF THE ISSUES TO PUT ON IN PART OF THE MATRIX, IS IF YOU HAVE A HUB MEETING, WHO IS HOSTING IT? IF IT IS ICANN HOSTING IT, HOW DO YOU DEAL WITH THE FINANCIAL ASPECTS OF IT. HOW DO YOU DEAL WITH THE APPROPRIATENESS OF SPONSORSHIP? AND IT COULD BE APPROPRIATE. I AM JUST RAISING THE QUESTION.

SO I JUST WANTED TO ADD THAT TO THE FORMULA.

>>SUSAN CRAWFORD: ABSOLUTELY. THERE ARE LOTS OF INTERTWINED ISSUES HERE.

HERE A LOCAL HOST. IF YOU HAVEN'T SPOKEN YET, HERE IS YOUR MOMENT.

>>KEITH DAVIDSON: KEITH DAVIDSON AGAIN. I THINK THE QUESTION OF THE COST OF THE LOCAL HOST IS PROBABLY GOING TO BECOME A GREATER ISSUE TO ICANN IF NOTHING CHANGES BECAUSE IT IS VERY EXPENSIVE TO HOST A MEETING, AND I THINK TRADITIONALLY, A NUMBER OF PREVIOUS HOSTS HAVE HOSTED BECAUSE THEY WANTED SOMETHING SPECIFIC FROM THE ICANN MEETING ITSELF.

SO AS TIME GOES BY, THOSE PEOPLE THIN OUT, AND JUST WANTING TO THROW A COUPLE HUNDRED THOUSAND U.S. DOLLARS INTO A MEETING IS NOT SOMETHING THAT MOST CCTLD MANAGERS, OR OTHERS, WANT TO DO.

HOWEVER, I HAVE GIVEN A SUGGESTION IN THE PAST THAT PERHAPS ICANN COULD LOOK AT WAYS TO ALLEVIATE THE COST -- SOME OF THE COSTS ON THE LOCAL HOSTS.

FOR EXAMPLE, IT SEEMS TO COST A HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS PER MEETING FOR AUDIOVISUAL. PROBABLY 300,000 CAPITAL EXPENDITURE FOR THAT EQUIPMENT. ICANN COULD POSSIBLY BUY THAT EQUIPMENT AND SHIP IT MEETING TO MEETING AND RELIEVE SOME COSTS IN THAT WAY.

IN TERMS OF JUST THE GENERAL CONCEPT OF HUB LOCATIONS, I THINK THAT'S QUITE A DIFFICULT ONE BECAUSE CERTAINLY IN OUR CASE, THE OUTREACH THAT WE GOT FROM THAT WAS JUST SO HUGE, I CAN'T SPEAK FOR ANY OTHER HOST, BUT IF THEY WORK TO ACHIEVE THAT, I'M SURE THAT WILL SUCCEED AS WELL.

SO SEEING THE MEETINGS DISAPPEAR INTO SINGLE LOCATIONS MIGHT BE A CONFERENCE ORGANIZER'S DREAM, BUT NOT NECESSARILY WHAT ICANN WAS CREATED FOR.

AND JUST VERY FINALLY, WHETHER TWO OR THREE MEETINGS A YEAR, I JUST WONDER IF IT TAKES A WEEK TO GET THROUGH THE BUSINESS THREE TIMES A YEAR, ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT A TWO-WEEK MEETING TWICE A YEAR?

>>JEAN-CHRISTOPHE VIGNES: THANKS, SUSAN. JEAN-CHRISTOPHE VIGNES FROM EURO DNS REGISTRAR --

I HAVE BEEN ATTENDING SEVERAL ICANN MEETINGS IN THE HAAS SEVERAL YEARS IN SEVERAL CAPACITIES. I WON'T COMMENT ON THE LOCATION ALTHOUGH IT'S ALWAYS GREAT TO DISCOVER NEW CITIES AND NEW COUNTRIES LIKE SAO PAULO IN BRAZIL.

WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO POINT OUT IS THAT WHAT AMAZES ME IS THAT THIS ONLINE WORLD WE LIVE IN WHERE SO MUCH CAN HAPPEN ONLY BY TYPING ON A KEYBOARD, THE VALUE OF FACE TO FACE EXCHANGE, THE VALUE OF MEETINGS IN THE ROOMS OR IN CORRIDORS IS UNPRECEDENTED AND CANNOT BE REPLACED.

FOR THIS REASON I THINK TWICE A YEAR WOULD BE LESS THAN ENOUGH FOR MANY OF US.

>>SUSAN CRAWFORD: ANY MORE COMMENTS ON THESE TWO PAIRED ISSUES, LOCATION OF MEETINGS AND NUMBER OF MEETINGS? SOMEONE WHO HASN'T SPOKEN BEFORE? WHAT DO YOU THINK? ANYBODY? HERE I AM ROAMING HELPLESSLY AROUND.

>>JEAN-CHRISTOPHE VIGNES: I'M SORRY, SUSAN, I JUST LOOKED AT THE TRANSCRIPT, AND WHAT I MEANT WAS THAT TWICE A YEAR IS NOT ENOUGH FOR....

>>WENDY SELTZER: SHE WAS IGNORING ME BECAUSE I AM A USUAL SUSPECT. AS A MEMBER OF THE AT-LARGE ADVISORY COMMITTEE I SUPPOSE I COULD HAVE TWO WIDELY DIVERGENT VIEWS. EITHER THERE SHOULD BE MORE MEETINGS IN MORE LOCATIONS WHERE MORE MEMBERS OF THE GENERAL PUBLIC COULD COME TO A MEETING CLOSE TO THEM OR, ALTERNATELY, THAT THERE SHOULD BE FEWER MEETINGS WITH MUCH MORE EMPHASIS ON REMOTE PARTICIPATION SO THAT THE AT LARGE USERS, MANY OF HOME ARE UNABLE TO TRAVEL TO ANY MEETING, COULD EASILY PARTICIPATE ON A NEARLY EQUAL FOOTING WITH MEMBERS OF THE COMMUNITY FROM BUSINESS INTERESTS WHO HAVE BUSINESS BACKING TO ATTEND THESE MEETINGS.

>>JON NEVETT: THIS IS JON NEVETT FROM NETWORK SOLUTIONS. I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO COURAGE MORE ICANN FINANCIAL SUPPORT FOR MEETINGS. I THINK IT MAKES SENSE NOT TO PUT SO MUCH BURDEN ON THE LOCAL HOSTS, AND ECHOING OUR HOST FROM NEW ZEALAND, I WOULD LIKE TO POINT OUT IN THE LAST YEAR'S BUDGET, ICANN ESTIMATED A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF CONTRIBUTIONS FROM REGISTRARS AND INDIRECTLY REGISTRANTS. AND BECAUSE OF THE SUCCESS OF DOMAIN NAME REGISTRATIONS, THEY COLLECTED MORE THAN $4.5 MILLION EXTRA FROM WHAT THEY EXPECTED TO GET.

SO I THINK SOME OF THAT MONEY COULD BE USED FOR MORE LOCAL HOST SUPPORT AND MORE MEETING SUPPORT AND GET A LITTLE MORE CONFORMITY IN THIS.

AND IT WOULD EXPAND THE ABILITY FOR ICANN TO SELECT LOCATIONS WHERE MAYBE THEY DON'T HAVE A LOCAL HOST THAT HAS THE ECONOMIC WHEREWITHAL TO SUPPORT THE MEETING.

>>CHUCK GOMES: CHUCK GOMES AGAIN.

DO WE COLLECT ANY DATA, ESPECIALLY WITH REGARD TO PARTICIPANTS IN ATTENDANCE AT THE REGIONAL MEETINGS FROM THE LOCAL AREA?

THE REASON I ASK THAT, I THINK WE'RE ALL BASING -- ASSUMING SOME THINGS THAT WOULD BE REALLY GOOD TO VALIDATE.

IS IT ACCURATE THAT LOCATING THE MEETINGS IN ALL THESE LOCATIONS REALLY DOES BENEFIT THE LOCAL COMMUNITY?

I'M NOT SUGGESTING IT DOESN'T. I'D LIKE TO BELIEVE IT DOES. BUT IT WOULD BE REALLY GOOD TO VALIDATE THAT WITH SOME DATA, INCLUDING MAYBE SOME QUESTIONNAIRES OF THE LOCAL PEOPLE THAT ATTEND THE MEETINGS TO SEE HOW IT BENEFITS THEM, WHAT THE LONG-RANGE IS, DO THEY CONTINUED TO BE INVOLVED, THINGS LIKE THAT I THINK WOULD BE VERY HELPFUL.

>>PAUL LEVINS: PAUL LEVINS.

I'M SORRY.

I'M NOT SURE WE NEED TO HAVE IT ONE WAY OR THE OTHER. WHAT I MEAN BY THAT IS, PERHAPS THERE'S THE POSSIBILITY OF THINKING ABOUT ONE MEETING IN A REMOTE LOCATION OR A LOCATION THAT IS NOT A HUB, AND THE OTHER TWO IN HUB LOCATIONS.

MAYBE WE NEED TO EXPERIMENT WITH THAT.

BUT THE ONE CAVEAT I PUT ON THAT, OF COURSE, IS THE COST OF EXPERIMENTATION.

BUT I THINK I DO HAVE THE ULTIMATE SOLUTION, AND I WISH IT WAS -- I WISH I WAS THE PERSON WHO HAD THOUGHT OF IT. BUT IT'S AN ICANN CRUISE SHIP, AND WE JUST FLOAT FROM LOCATION TO LOCATION.

LAUGH.

>>PAUL LEVINS: THERE'S AN OPEN BAR AND....

>>STEVEN METALITZ: STEVEN METALITZ. I THINK CHUCK SAID MUCH MORE ARTICULATELY SOMETHING I RAISED EARLIER.

WE HAVE SOME SUPPOSITIONS ABOUT THE VALUE OF MEETING IN MANY DIFFERENT PLACES BUT WE DON'T HAVE VERY MUCH DATA ABOUT WHETHER WE ARE ACTUALLY REALIZING THAT VALUE.

SO NOW I WILL SAY SOMETHING THAT I CAN'T PROVE QUANTITATIVELY EITHER. I THINK WE WOULD HAVE MUCH MORE PARTICIPATION FROM MANY SECTORS IF WE MET IN PLACES THAT WERE EASIER TO GET TO. AND SO I WOULD SUPPORT THE IDEA OF MORE MEETINGS IN HUB CITIES, AND PERSONALLY I WOULD SUPPORT THE IDEA OF TWO MEETINGS RATHER THAN THREE MEETINGS, BUT I UNDERSTAND THAT THERE'S A LOT OF TRADEOFFS INVOLVED THERE.

>>PAUL TWOMEY: PAUL TWOMEY.

I, QUITE HONESTLY, CAN VOTE ONE WAY AND THEN VOTE THE OTHER ON THIS ONE. SO I CAN SUPPORT IN MY MIND AN ARGUMENT FOR ONE AND I CAN SUPPORT IN MY MIND AN ARGUMENT FOR THE OTHER. OR I CAN BE AN ECONOMIST; RIGHT?

BUT THE THING I WANTED TO PICK UP ON, WHAT MR. METALITZ JUST SAID, IS I PROBABLY WOULD THINK IN THE CONVERSATIONS I HAVE HAD WITH VARIOUS TYPES OF PEOPLE IN THE LAST 12 MONTHS, 60-PLUS PEOPLE HAVE SAID TO ME "I WOULD COME TO THESE MEETINGS IF THEY WERE IN SOME PLACE I COULD GET TO EASILY," A HUB.

AND THESE ARE TENDED TO BE SENIOR GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS OR SENIOR BUSINESS PEOPLE TYPES. SO FOR WHAT IT'S WORTH.

>>BRET FAUSETT: THANKS.

AS I ANNOUNCED EARLIER AT THE GNSO COUNCIL MEETING, I AM STEPPING DOWN FROM MY ROLE IN THE ALAC AND THE GNSO COUNCIL AT THE END OF THIS MEETING SOLELY BECAUSE FOUR WEEKS OF TRAVEL AWAY FROM HOME EVERY YEAR IS TOO MUCH OF A BURDEN FOR ME TO EXPECT MY FAMILY TO BEAR. AND I THINK I AM HARDLY UNIQUE IN THAT. AND THESE AREN'T FIVE-DAY MEETINGS AS ONE OF THE SLIDES SHOWED BEFORE. THESE ARE SEVEN-DAY MEETINGS. WE HAVE DONE IT TO OURSELVES. WE HAVE ASKED FOR MORE TIME AND MORE TIME. WE HAVE LOADED UP CONSTITUENCY MEETINGS ON THE FRONT. AND THEY HAVE BECOME SEVEN-DAY MEETINGS WITH TWO DAYS OF TRAVEL ON EITHER SIDE. AND WHEN ADDED UP YOU ARE AWAY FROM HOME A MONTH A YEAR. AND I THINK THAT'S TOO MUCH TO ASK PEOPLE WHO WANT TO PARTICIPATE IN ICANN TO BEAR.

AND WOULD I BE IN FAVOR OF SHORTENING THE MEETINGS DRAMATICALLY FROM THESE SEVEN OR EIGHT DAYS THAT WE HAVE GOT DOWN TO TWO OR THREE, OR GOING TO TWO MEETINGS.

>>KEITH DAVIDSON: OKAY. JUST IN TERMS OF MEETING LOCATIONS, I CAN ASSURE YOU TO GO FROM NEW ZEALAND TO ICANN MEETINGS WE PROBABLY GET THE ROUGHEST END OF THE STICK AND THE 20-ODD HOURS IT TAKES TO GET HERE IS JUST NEXT-DOOR. IT'S A CLOSE TRIP.

GOING BACK TO CHUCK'S QUESTIONS EARLIER, I DID GIVE SOME FIGURES EARLIER, MAYBE CHUCK WASN'T IN THE ROOM, BUT 266 ASIA-PACIFIC ATTENDEES IN WELLINGTON, 170 NEW ZEALANDERS, 49 AUSTRALIANS, 47 PACIFIC ISLANDERS. THAT SHOWS THE LOCAL SUPPORT.

>>BERTRAND DE LA CHAPELLE: BERTRAND DE LA CHAPELLE AGAIN.

FIRST, FULL SUPPORT TO EXPLORING THE POSSIBILITY OF CAPITAL EQUIPMENT INVESTMENT TO ALLEVIATE THE BURDEN FOR LOCAL HOSTS.

THE SECOND THING IS, THE HUB NOTION IS AN IMPORTANT CRITERIA. THE PERMANENT LOCATION IS CERTAINLY A NO-GO, BECAUSE OTHERWISE YOU WILL GET IN EXACTLY THE SAME TRAP AS OTHER INTERNATIONAL ORGANIZATIONS AND YOU WILL END UP IN GENEVA OR ELSEWHERE. WHICH MIGHT HAVE BENEFITS BUT IT'S NOT EXACTLY AN INNOVATIVE MODEL, I WOULD SAY.

THE LAST POINT IS, WITHOUT DRAGGING THE DISCUSSION TOO LONG OUT, I JUST WANT TO RAISE ONE ELEMENT, IS WE SHOULDN'T BE DISCUSSING THE NUMBER OF MEETINGS IRRESPECTIVE OF WHAT HAPPENS IN BETWEEN. BECAUSE WHAT HAS BEEN SAID BEFORE, MANY OCCASIONS, MEETING IS ABOUT ALLOWING PEOPLE TO MEET AND INTERACT.

AND THAT MEANS NOT THAT MUCH REPORTING, NOT THAT MUCH DRAFTING OF DOCUMENTS.

THE IMPORTANT THING IS WHAT IS GOING ON IN BETWEEN.

ARE THERE REGIONAL MEETINGS THAT ALLOW FOR OUTREACH, FOR INSTANCE? IS THE PURPOSE OF THOSE MEETINGS TO, AS ADAM WAS SAYING EARLIER, TO SET UP A BROAD PICTURE ON CERTAIN ISSUES BY REAL INTERACTION AMONG ALL THE DIFFERENT CONSTITUENCIES? OR IS IT ABOUT FINALIZING THE FINAL WORDING OF DECISIONS?

DISCUSSING WHAT ARE THE PURPOSES OF THE MEETING AND WHAT HAPPENS IN BETWEEN, HOW IT COMPLEMENTS OTHER MEETINGS THAT MIGHT BE ORGANIZED BY OTHER PEOPLE FOR OUTREACH MUST BE PART OF THE PICTURE.

IT'S NOT A SINGLE ISSUE.

>> (SAYING NAME) FROM TAIWAN.

I HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT LOCATIONS.

WHEN ICANN IS THINKING ABOUT LOCATION, I THINK WE MUST REALLY SERIOUSLY THINK ABOUT VISA ISSUES. A LOT OF PEOPLE COULD NOT COME HERE BECAUSE VISA TOOK TOO LONG. SOME OF THEM NEED 30 DAY TO GET THROUGH. THEY COULD NOT COME BECAUSE THE VISA TOOK TOO LONG TO COME OUT.

SO I WISH, ICANN, WHEN YOU TALKING ABOUT LOCATION, YOU MUST REALLY THINK CAREFULLY ABOUT THE ISSUE, ASK THEM TO HELP. WITHOUT THE HELP, IT REALLY MAKES PEOPLE VERY, VERY DIFFICULT TO PARTICIPATE.

>>SUSAN CRAWFORD: THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THAT COMMENT. AND WE HEARD A LOT ABOUT VISA ISSUES FOR THIS.

FOR THE LAST WORD ON THIS TANGLED SET OF ISSUES, I HAVE ASKED MY COLLEAGUE, PETER DENGATE THRUSH, TO GIVE US SOME KIND OF BENEDICTION.

>>PETER DENGATE THRUSH: I'M NOT SURE WHY I GET THE LAST WORD. LET ME INTRODUCE MYSELF FROM BEING FROM NEW ZEALAND, .NZ, AND I SAY THAT BECAUSE I AM GOING TO WHOLEHEARTEDLY SUGGEST THAT WE HAVE EVERY THIRD MEETING IN ONE PLACE ON THE CONDITION THAT'S IN WELLINGTON. I'M SURE YOU ALL WANT TO COME TO WELLINGTON EVERY YEAR.

SO LET'S DO THAT.

STARTING SERIOUSLY --

HAVE YOU ASKED THE LOCAL HOST HOW MUCH MONEY NEW ZEALAND MADE? IT WAS WONDERFUL.

A COUPLE OF OTHER THINGS.

IF I COULD -- KEEP IN MIND NEW ZEALAND AND THE BENEFITS OF THE LOCAL COMMUNITY, THERE WERE ENORMOUS BENEFITS TO THE LOCAL COMMUNITY OF HAVING THE ICANN MEETING IN NEW ZEALAND AND I THINK KEITH WOULD PROBABLY PUT SOME OF THOSE INTO HIS REPORT WHICH IS AVAILABLE BUT LET ME PUT ONE. THE UNBUNDLING OF THE LOCAL LOOP IN NEW ZEALAND, A DECISION MADE BY COM AND NET SHORTLY AFTER THE ICANN MEETING, WAS NOT COINCIDENTAL.

THE APPEARANCE OF EXPERTS AND THE IMPETUS THAT GAVE IN OUR NEW ZEALAND DOMESTIC POLITICAL SITUATION IS INCALCULABLE.

AND I'M SURE THE SAME THING HAPPENS IN OTHER PLACES AROUND THE WORLD, WHICH WAS ONE OF THE REASONS FOR MOVING THE MEETINGS AROUND.

IF I COULD PUT ON NOW THE HAT OF THE PAST CHAIR OF THE CCTLD ADCOM, THIS IS THE CCTLD BODY THAT PRECEDED THE CCNSO IN MANY WAYS, WE HAVE GOT THAT DATA AND I CAN TELL YOU ANECDOTALLY, IT HAS BEEN A FEATURE OF THE MEETINGS -- I HAVE BEEN TO EVERY ONE OF THE ICANN MEETINGS WHERE THERE HAS BEEN A CCTLD MEETING, AND IT'S BEEN A FEATURE OF ALL OF THEM THAT WHEN A MEETING IS IN AFRICA, A LOT OF AFRICAN AND EUROPEAN CCTLDS COMES AND WE DON'T SEE SO MANY LATINS. WHEN WE ARE HERE IN LATIN AMERICA, WE SEE VERY MUCH FEWER AFRICANS.

WE HAVE GOT THE DATA AS TO THAT BECAUSE WE KEEP A RECORD OF ALL THE MEETINGS.

SO IF SOMEBODY WANTS TO START DOING SOME STATS, CONTACT WWTLD, OR ANY OF US WHO HAVE BEEN AROUND. THAT DATA IS AVAILABLE. AND IT WILL SHOW THERE IS A REAL ADVANTAGE TO THE LOCAL AREA IN HAVING THE MEETING MOVE AROUND.

>>SUSAN CRAWFORD: BUT NONETHELESS, YOU MIGHT SUPPORT A HYBRID APPROACH THAT MIGHT INCLUDE ONE PERMANENT SETTING.

>>PETER DENGATE THRUSH: I AM NOT PREPARED TO COMPROMISE.

>>SUSAN CRAWFORD: THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR PARTICIPATION TODAY. I WANT TO KEEP YOU INTERESTED IN THESE ISSUES. PLEASE WRITE TO US, ANY MUCH US ON THE BOARD ABOUT ALL OF THIS.

AND STAFF, OF COURSE.

PAUL, DO YOU WANT A VERY LAST WORD AT THIS MOMENT?

>>PAUL LEVINS: SURE.

AND IT'S A WORD OF THANKS. THANKS TO SUSAN FOR HER LEADERSHIP ON THIS ISSUE

[ APPLAUSE ]

>>PAUL LEVINS: AND THANK YOU TO THE ICANN TEAM THAT DELIVERS THESE MEETINGS. THEY ARE SORT OF THE EQUIVALENT OF MINI OLYMPICS IN WAY. AND DIANE SCHROEDER AND KURT PRITZ. THERE ARE MANY PEOPLE WHO MAKE IT POSSIBLE, AND I HAVE LEFT PEOPLE OUT AND I APOLOGIZE BUT THANK YOU FOR YOUR WORK ON THESE MEETINGS AND THEY HAVE I'M NOT SURE HOW MANY DAYS LEFT UNTIL LISBON.

>>SUSAN CRAWFORD: THANK YOU, WE ARE ADJOURNED.