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Re: The Updated "Enrolled Organizations List" of NCDNHC from 7.1. to 7.31.

Eric and all,

Eric S Johnson wrote:

dear NCDNHC,

> >     I don't see the connection.  Does it follow that
> > if an organization is NON-PROFIT, it is a commercial?

>   To answer your question directly, yes.  Legally, if you are not
> registered
> as a NON-COMMERCIAL entity specifically in most countries legal
> definition and in compliance with US law as well, and rather are legally
> defined as NON-PROFIT, than that entity is by it's own admission,
> engaged in some commercial activity.

something's not right in this discussion.

there is no distinction in US law (that i'm aware of) that would define
whether you're commercial or non-commercial.

  Well you are unfortunately mistaken.  THere most certainly is.  Check
with a competent attorney for further information.
the only distinction in US law
(and strictly speaking, it's not in the law, it's in the IRS tax code) is
whether you're a for-profit or a non-profit (or a religious) organization.
  IRS tax code provides for several "Classifications" of NON-PROFIT
entities as well as NON-COMMERCIAL entities as well.  As does US law.
One is not necessarily related to the other however.
 
the distinction exists only to provide tax privileges to those who are not
for-profits. otherwise, the government doesn't care what you call yourself.
Strictly speaking this statement is factually incorrect.
 

every organization that exists gets funding from someone to do something,
and is therefore in some way commercial.

  Not strictly speaking.  I for instance have been involved on both sides
of this fence.  SOme organizations get ALL of their funding from donations.
Others do not, or get "Fees" or collect "Fees" for a service or product or
a Product and service.  They would likely be NON-PROFIT and qualify,
in some cases, as Tax-Exempt under 501 C(3) status.  Others, such
as many universities, would not.
 

my NGO (or PVO, depending on your terminology) is a non-profit, i.e. we have
a certificate from the IRS authorizing us to be exempted from corporate
income tax under article 501(c)(3) of the US tax code. we exist because we
get grants from foundations to do "good" work.

  This is all well and fine.  But it does not necessarily distinguish your
organization as NON-COMMERCIAL, hence making such and organization
or entity unqualified, strictly speaking for the NCDNHC as a member.
are we commercial or
non-commercial? i'd say that by almost any definition we're non-commercial,
and therefore jeff's definition above--which says anyone non-profit must be
commercial--breaks down.
  I did not say that and your language semantics here are unwarranted as
such.  (See my above comments as well as other comments posted
to this list in this regard). Archives I believe are also available.
at any rate, in our work there's no commerce going
on--except insofar as, essentially, foundations are "buying" our services by
giving us grants.
  If those grants can be tied to a service as a means of payment in order
to receive your service, than yes, you are engaging in Commercial activity,
all be it NON-PROFIT.  As such you are not strictly speaking NON-COMMERCIAL.
Hence, you are not qualified for membership, strictly speaking in the
NCDNHC Constituency.
but by that definition, everything's commercial:
greenpeace is commercial because their "members" buy their services; your
local Department of Transportation office is commercial because you "buy"
their services when you pay your $25 fee for your driver's license.
  Yes this example would be strictly speaking a Commercial enterprise
all be it a government function, as as such fit's into a separate category.
Hence this example does not apply to private enterprise, or the private
sector.
 

semantic games aside, how are we going to draw the line here? if the point
is to give a voice to a segment of society (or societies) which don't
otherwise have a voice in ICANN, then in some way NCDNH is a constituency
for everyone not in any other constituency. ??

  Not necessarily.  It may be advisable that a new Constituency such as a
NON-PROFIT Constituency would required or suggestible.  In this way
those organizations that are NON-PROFIT, yet not NON-COMMERCIAL
would have a voice as a constituency.
 

best, eric

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